What to Do During an In-Home Painting Estimate

Jon Bryant: Hey guys, welcome back to the Price Sell Paint podcast. I'm Jon and Michael Murray is here with me. Today we're talking about the moment where you have to do an estimate at a customer's home. On a previous episode, we talked about how to show up to an estimate. This episode is all about what to do when you're actually in the home, once you've met the potential customer and gathered their details, so you can put together a great price and have a chance to win the job.

Before we get into it, Michael, you were just here in Calgary. First time in Canada. How was it?

Michael Murray: It was amazing. I got to visit the PaintScout world headquarters and meet so many cool people. It's incredible to see how much the team has grown since you and I first met six years ago. There are so many people I've interacted with — mostly over support chat or at PCA events — and it was great to finally see everybody in person. Calgary did not disappoint.

Jon Bryant: Always interesting to get together in person. And you got to play hockey.

Michael Murray: That's the only thing you have to do in Canada.

Jon Bryant: I wanted you to feel like you were actually in Canada. A lot of people think something like PaintScout happens with two people in a basement grinding away, but it takes an army to service the whole community. Also, the Operations feature launch happened while you were here — that was a fun celebration.

Michael Murray: Yeah, hopefully anybody listening who uses PaintScout is checking out those new features. Lots of fun stuff.

Jon Bryant: Let's get into it. We've both managed sales teams and helped people understand this process. Painting is similar to other home services in that you really need to be on site to give yourself the best chance to win larger projects and build trust. We have this unique part of the job where we're actually creating the estimate with the customer — building their project and their vision in real time. That's a different sales experience from selling furniture or other products, where you're not in someone's home for that long. Michael, take it from here.

Michael Murray: So let's define where we are. We've been breaking down the sales estimate into a handful of segments — probably about four pieces total. We're into phase two. Phase one was setting the table: showing up, introductions, where to park, what to wear, asking questions, learning about the homeowner, sharing a bit about the company. But we haven't yet talked about the actual project — what does this person want painted, what colors, what's included, what products. That's where we're headed today.

Jon Bryant: Exactly. We're going to talk about the walk-around — what you're actually doing during that 15 to 30 minutes of building a price. We'll cover what information you need to capture: pictures, prep work. We'll talk about defining scope, how you learn what the customer actually wants, and how to approach that in a healthy way. And then we'll talk about getting to the price — what it takes to actually sit down and discuss it, potentially get a decision, or at least confirm you're in the right ballpark.

Michael Murray: This part of the estimate really comes down to two main pieces. The first is the walk-around with the homeowner, where we're asking questions and figuring out what needs to be done. The second happens mostly without the homeowner — building the quote, taking pictures, documenting the job well so that when the crew shows up, whether employees or subs, they have everything they need. Poor documentation leads to miscommunication — the customer says the sales rep promised something, the crew doesn't see it anywhere, and now you've got a frustrated customer. There's a lot of important stuff happening here.

It all starts with the transition from the initial conversation. Once there's alignment — this seems like it could be a good fit — I'll say something like, "Great, let's walk around and you can show me exactly what you're looking to get done."

This is usually a low-pressure part of the appointment. Even a contractor who just ballparks a price is going to do some version of a walk-around. Homeowners expect it and it typically goes pretty smoothly. Would you agree?

Jon Bryant: Yeah, at this point there's no pressure. It's just — show me the work. This is why they called you. They look forward to it. And then probably two or three minutes in, they get a little bored of their own place and they're like, "Okay, what's that going to cost?" We're trying to get there as fast as possible.

You mentioned asking questions upfront before the walk-around. My process has always been to set the stage quickly — explain how the estimate works, how long it'll take — and maybe ask what two things they most want to learn today to make sure their time is well spent. Then get to the walk-around as fast as possible. Can you talk about your approach?

Michael Murray: Yeah, this is something we've intentionally changed over the last six to twelve months. For most of my career it looked like what you just described — nice to meet you, say hi to the dog, let's take a quick walk around. What we do now is slow down that beginning part. We ask to sit down with the homeowner first, even just for five minutes, before we even walk around. We use the presentation feature in PaintScout to share a little about who we are, what happens after we decide to work together, our project coordinators, Google reviews, community service, awards. We never want to assume the homeowner has researched us. Some people have done a lot of research. Others literally Googled "painter near me," hit call, and scheduled. To them, you're no different from the five o'clock or seven o'clock appointment.

What we found is that if you get straight into the project, the homeowner's expectation becomes: you told me about the project, you tell me the price, and I'll send you home to think about it. Our reps were getting railroaded — never getting the chance to talk about who we are. Slowing down that beginning prevents that.

Jon Bryant: I like that. We've always done that part closer to the end when presenting the price. Though one challenge I see is that once you've taken all the details, you've got to make a bunch of changes on the fly at the end — like reducing product or adjusting coats. Did you encounter that?

Michael Murray: Yeah, it's a real thing. The thinking behind the approach comes from studying sales systems in other home improvement industries — windows, gutter systems, larger companies here in the Cleveland market. In a lot of those industries, especially the ones doing hundreds of millions in revenue, the sales systems lead with the company, not the product. And that's partly because products are often similar. If I'm selling vinyl windows, every competitor is showing the same heat lamp demo. The differentiation has to come from the company itself — how long you've been around, your warranties, your process.

Painting is the same way. If we're both using Sherwin-Williams Duration, and that's all we talk about, the customer has no choice but to go with the lower price. Our whole philosophy is: ask questions, gather information, make recommendations, confirm those recommendations. For example, if during the walk-around the homeowner mentions they're selling in two or three years, I might say: "Based on that, I'd recommend a mid-tier product — something like Sherwin-Williams Latitude rather than Emerald. You're only here a few more years, and it'll save you some money. Does that sound right for what you're looking for?" Gather the information, make the recommendation, confirm it.

That way, when I present the price and they say it's more than expected, I can say, "My fault — I must have misheard, because I built the price based on everything you told me you wanted. Did you want to go with a lower-grade product? I could save you a bit of money, though I wouldn't recommend it." And they usually say no.

Jon Bryant: So to recap: understand what the customer is trying to achieve, make recommendations, confirm them. A lot of contractors assume they know what's best and present accordingly — then when the customer doesn't take it, they call them cheap. But in reality, you just gave them what you wanted instead of what they wanted. It's subtle but it matters.

Michael Murray: To be clear, I'm not asking them what paint to use — I'm the expert, I'm making the recommendation. But I'm giving them an opportunity to make buying decisions. They're essentially building the quote. Customers love to buy and hate to be sold. We need to do a better job educating homeowners during the walk-around so they understand the difference between products and why our approach is worth the price.

Jon Bryant: And helping them understand what apples-to-apples even looks like. They assume services are identical, so part of our job is educating them that they're not. Someone might say the other quote uses Benjamin Moore — but there's a big range within Benjamin Moore, and those are very different things.

Okay, so you've set the stage. Now you actually have to take measurements. Are you doing that with the customer or on your own?

Michael Murray: I do a full lap around the house — exterior or interior — with the homeowner present. I'm asking questions the whole time: are we painting this, do you want that done, what about this? Making recommendations and confirming them. I also get hands-on — going right up to the house, showing them details, pointing out a crack I'm going to caulk, showing them where there's mildew we'll want to treat. Most competitors are standing 15 to 20 feet away and taking in the big picture. Getting close shows passion and expertise. Homeowners really appreciate it — they can see that you'll pay attention to the details. And I try not to be alarmist about it. It's not "if you don't paint, your house will fall down." It's more like, "It's important we caulk these seams so water doesn't get in here — and I noticed some rot starting over here that we'll want to address."

Jon Bryant: If you're not having these conversations, you're leaving success on the table. It builds relationships and understanding. If you take two things from today: ask a lot of questions, and don't assume you know anything.

So after the lap with the customer, I'll typically say, "Thanks — I need about 15 to 20 minutes to document everything and build the price. I'll check back in." Is that similar to what you do?

Michael Murray: Exactly. For newer reps, we coach them to say it'll take 20 to 30 minutes, that they'll be getting measurements, pictures, and videos so the crew has a really clear picture of what they're doing. Assumptive language — not "if we book the job," but "when we start the job."

We also give the leave-behind at this point. I don't like giving it at the end of the quote — that signals you're assuming they're going to think about it. So as we transition to the solo time, I'll say, "Before I get started, I brought this along for you." I'll open it up, reference something specific — "I know you mentioned a dark blue color; there's actually a house in here we did that reminded me of what you were describing." Then I'll send them back inside while I build the quote.

Jon Bryant: So they've got their leave-behind, you're walking around solo, documenting everything. What are you capturing?

We're taking pictures of the front of the house for the estimate — here's your property, we're at the right location. We're capturing anything unusual: hard-to-reach areas, access issues, things that are broken or damaged that we want on record before we show up. And prep — especially on older or deteriorated properties, or anything involving lead. Prep is hard to fully systematize; there's a feel to it that comes with experience, so photos really help here.

Michael Murray: Yeah, and any special equipment — if we need a lift for a tall section, I want that well documented with pictures and annotations. I also love videos — a short walk-and-talk video is like a two-minute onsite briefing for the crew leader. Here's what the customer is hoping for, here's the tricky spot in the backyard, be careful over here. Very useful.

Jon Bryant: Video captures the sentiment of the space in a way pictures don't. And in PaintScout, the estimate and work order are intentionally separate so you can communicate differently to the customer and to the crew. That walk-around video is for the crew, not the customer.

Michael Murray: Right — I'm not saying anything I'd care if they saw, but it's overkill for the customer.

So when you're building scope, how do you balance level of detail? You want to give your crew enough to work with, but not so much that you're spending 45 minutes on every tiny spot. Where's that line?

Jon Bryant: We have standard practices that crews are expected to know — basic filling, patching, caulking. I'm not documenting every hole. I'm looking for "good," not "perfect." Perfect doesn't exist in a painting estimate. Where I do add specific detail is anything unique to that job: hard-to-reach areas, a customer who has a beautiful garden and cares about it deeply, a dog that can't be near an open door. Those things go on the estimate because they're individual to that situation.

But there's a level of detail that helps communication and a level that hinders it. If you make the estimate too complex, customers get overwhelmed. They'll either tune out and just pick the lowest price, or they'll scrutinize every line item — "why is this bathroom $300?" Same with the work order: too much detail and your crew starts spacing out and missing things.

Michael Murray: Or overanalyzing small things — it says we're painting the gutters but not the downspouts, so now there's a debate. The rep knew you'd spray them both while you're spraying the siding — it didn't need a separate line. It's a balance.

One thing we've implemented: every single part of the house has to be either included or excluded. There's a clear section in the contract that lists excluded areas. We can't have items that just aren't mentioned anywhere. And at the top of every quote template, we have a "Special Considerations" box. That's where reps document anything unique — specific customer requests, promises made during the walk-around, things like "customer has a large shrub near the front entrance, take care around it." It shows the customer you were listening, and it's there for the crew when they arrive. Sometimes it's operational — "this job will require a lift" — which is more for scheduling than for the homeowner.

Jon Bryant: Let's talk about price. I saw someone in a Facebook group this week ask, "You give the price on the spot?" and people were chiming in saying they never do that, that it's slimy or high-pressure. A lot of people have bad associations with salespeople and feel like presenting on the spot is a pressure tactic.

Michael Murray: Here's the problem with that thinking — it misunderstands what we're trying to do. Stop thinking of it as selling and start thinking of it as consulting. My job is to understand what you're looking for, provide education, and make recommendations based on your goals — not mine. If we don't present the price in person, how do we have the conversation that follows? We don't. We send an email, they respond that they went with someone else, and we assume it's because our price was too high. But none of that might be true. You might have lost the job to someone who charged more but did a better job being consultative.

The price is also somewhat made up — it's built on the decisions the customer made during the walk-around. So if they say it's more than expected, great — I love hearing that. Let's have a conversation. Let's adjust. What were you thinking? My goal isn't to win and have the customer lose. We're on the same side of the table. My job is to craft a quote that meets your needs, expectations, and budget. If I can't do that, you should work with someone else, and I'm okay with that.

We've talked about this before — we want closure. Yes, no, or a clear next step. And there are plenty of quotes we decline to bid. We're not always the right fit. Once you stop thinking like a salesperson and start thinking like a consultant, it gets a lot less stressful and a lot more fun. And you'll sell more.

Jon Bryant: That was the freeing moment for me — realizing I don't have to sell anything. I just have to figure out whether we're a good fit. Sometimes other companies are better fits and that's fine. There's plenty of painting work out there.

So to recap: you're doing the walk-around, using a production rate estimating system, measuring, itemizing, getting to a price so you can have a real conversation with the customer. One thing I want to add before we wrap — a lot of reps over-scope. The customer says "maybe" on something and they include it in the price. My philosophy is less is more. Come in with the baseline scope and let the customer engineer it up.

If someone was unsure about a ceiling, put it in options rather than the main scope. Then when you sit down and they say the price seems okay, you can say, "I want to make sure we got scope right — I didn't include a couple of the things you were uncertain about. And I noticed the fence looked rough, so I threw that in as an option too. Let's talk about budget." You can never take a maybe as a definite and include it as part of the scope.

Michael Murray: Agreed. And a tip on templating: it's much faster to remove things than to add them. We build our templates a little on the fuller side. It's easier for a rep to delete a bullet point or a section than to search for the right one and add it from scratch. When I look at other PaintScout accounts, some start with almost a blank canvas. Ours are fully built out and we just remove what doesn't apply and customize from there.

Jon Bryant: Companies that use the templating features tend to win more — not a scientifically proven correlation, but it's what we see. Once you get the efficiency down, building estimates starts to feel effortless. For cabinets, some reps don't even step away from the customer — they're just updating a few numbers while still in conversation. It takes two or three minutes.

Michael Murray: Right, and there's a direct correlation between the percentage of time you're with the customer versus away from them, and how likely you are to win the job. If you're there for an hour and spend 30 minutes away building the quote, that's 50% of the time you're not building connection. If you cut that to 20 minutes, now it's only a third. And homeowners lose attention span. If it's taking longer than they expected, you're losing credibility.

Jon Bryant: I heard early on in the industry from a painting contractor that they were trained to spend at least two hours at the customer's home — the logic being the longer you spend, the more likely you win the job. There's some truth to that up to a point. But if I can do the estimate in 10 minutes and spend 25 with the customer, that's better than 30 minutes on the estimate and 15 with the customer. Don't stay for dinner if you came at lunch.

Michael Murray: And it factors into how many quotes you can run in a day, which matters too.

Jon Bryant: Let's recap. Today was about moving from the initial meeting through to getting your information — understanding the job, the scope, what's important to the customer — and coming back with a price so you can move into the next stage. That's what we'll cover next episode: the heart-to-heart conversation about whether you're the right fit, price engineering, and getting to a decision. Michael, final thoughts?

Michael Murray: Ask a lot of good questions. Be consultative. Show your expertise during the walk-around without being overly technical — you can be an expert without speaking in jargon. Reference back to things the customer said earlier: "I remember you said you're going to be here a while, so based on that I'd recommend this." If you do this well, the customer feels like they played a part in building the quote. There should be less sticker shock when you present the price, because you've been building value the whole time. When you show the price, the reaction should be something like: "Yeah, I expected you to be higher than the last guy — but you were much more thorough. You talked about things they never even mentioned."

Jon Bryant: That's a great place to end. Thanks for tuning in to Price Sell Paint. We hope you took something away today. Until next time — Michael, thank you.

Michael Murray: Take care.

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