How to Sell High-End Painting Projects Without Competing on Price // Juan Vasquez

Michael Murray: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Price Sell Paint. I'm Michael Murray, owner of Textbook Painting. As always, I'm joined by Jon Bryant, owner of PaintScout. Today we're lucky to have an esteemed guest: Juan Vasquez, owner of Illusions Inc., a successful painting company in Monterey, California, PCA board member, accomplished industry speaker, podcast host, and former PaintScout X speaker. Juan, great to have you back. How are things?

Juan Vasquez: Hey, thank you for having me, Michael. Happy to be here. As mentioned, I own a business here in Monterey, California. We established Illusions — back then it was Illusions Painting — 20 years ago, so we've seen our share of trends throughout the industry. I'm also a father — I have a 20-year-old son and an 18-year-old daughter heading to college this year. I was so ready to retire until I saw what her education is going to cost. Never mind. Here we are.

Michael Murray: Get back to work.

Jon Bryant: What kind of work do you do in Monterey? Higher end, right?

Juan Vasquez: Yeah, we specialize in the Pebble Beach and Carmel area — very high-end market. To reduce competition, we dug into extreme specialty finishes. We work on exclusive homes, doing Venetian plasters, metal patinas, very high-end stuff. That's our bread and butter.

Jon Bryant: Last time we talked, you mentioned working for a few celebrities. Do you have to sign NDAs for that?

Juan Vasquez: Yeah, I'd say a good 70% of our clients require an NDA. So we have internal pictures and notes but can't share them. Celebrities, business owners, a lot of oil money, people from around the world. We usually deal with a designer, architect, caretaker, or property management — and they pay well, so we're not too concerned about meeting the actual clients.

Jon Bryant: I've actually thought about just getting people to sign NDAs for everything. It's a real power move. "This never happened. I was never here." That's why they call it Illusions, right?

Juan Vasquez: Fake it till you make it — it's only an illusion!

Michael Murray: So to pretend you're a big deal.

Juan Vasquez: Why not? And actually, everyone in our company signs an NDA for the same reason. So I guess it does make us kind of important.

Jon Bryant: Did you start in high-end finishes, or did you build toward that over time?

Juan Vasquez: A little background: I started painting at 16 out of necessity. I worked for a company doing commercial work and traveled the country for about four years. Then I landed with a company doing the same type of houses we do now and worked there another four years. I didn't want to be 60 pushing a brush, so in 2005 I went out on my own. In the beginning I did everything I could — you have to. But little by little we focused more on the high end. The last 12 to 15 years, we've been very focused there.

Michael Murray: Who does most of your sales now?

Jon Bryant: Yeah, I was going to ask that.

Juan Vasquez: I don't do sales anymore. Something I've been working toward is exiting the company. This is all I've ever known, and I want to put my energy into something else. The PCA has been great for that. On the sales side, I have Jose, my business partner, who joined in 2018 — he handles the high-end sales, relationships, and training. Then I have Kevin, my nephew, who handles res repaint and smaller projects. And we have a project manager who assists with some sales. I'll go to a job and assist, but I draw the line there.

Jon Bryant: Michael and I are both curious about your sales philosophy — how do you sell to clients who require NDAs and are looking for high-end finishes? Before we get into that though, can you talk about your PCA involvement? You mentioned you were at an event yesterday in Phoenix.

Juan Vasquez: Yeah, I've been on the board for three years now. A little recap: for about 12 years in business, I was the painter. I had five or six guys, two crews — one would start prepping, I'd come do the finish, and we'd move on. It was great, but I realized I had a job, not a business. Josh Abramson from Albright Painting put on a Sherwin-Williams event in San Luis Obispo and I happened to go. He talked about the PCA, and that little light went on. I attended my first PCA event in 2018 in Galveston, Texas. Our company was very small at the time, but I walked out with a completely different view of the business. That started the journey.

I kept telling the PCA, "If you ever need anything, I'm your man," and they eventually said, "Fine, come in." I got invited onto the board about four years ago. My main focus there is advocating for the Hispanic community, which makes up between 67 and 70% of our industry. I also sit on an advisory board for Sherwin-Williams focused on the Hispanic community — there are 12 of us around the country. When Sherwin-Williams wants to roll out a system or program, we sit down and give them contractor-level feedback. I love the involvement. I was able to take my business to a higher level thanks to the PCA and Sherwin-Williams, and now I want to bring that back to our community and help the industry rise up.

Jon Bryant: What changes have you seen in the Hispanic painting community over the last couple of years?

Juan Vasquez: Four years ago at PCA, we probably had about 10 Hispanic contractors. The last couple of years, we've had over 100 to 200. By putting on PCA en Español events — this will be our fourth year — and bringing that many contractors together, we've really sparked interest in professionalizing. I understand the technician mentality because I started there. But social media, great systems like PaintScout, and the investment from PCA and Sherwin-Williams are making it easier. A lot of older companies were run by the father, and now I'm seeing the son or daughter take over — and that is really shifting the industry. These younger generations are coming in with a new mindset, and it's really exciting to see.

Jon Bryant: Quick follow-up — in those family situations where the parent started the business and the kids are coming in with new ideas, has there been a lot of tension? Or is it pretty well accepted that there are new ways of doing things?

Juan Vasquez: A lot of tension. Hispanics can be stubborn — there's a certain way to do things and that's how it's done. I've had people come to me and say their kids have been telling them all this stuff and they wouldn't listen. But when they come to one of these events and people are speaking their language and sharing their culture, I've had a few of those guys just break down and say, "My son, my daughter has been telling me all this, and I come here and I feel like an idiot for not listening." That is really what breaks the barrier. And some of those guys — their businesses have just flourished. It's a small movement, but it's catching up fast.

Michael Murray: I'd love to transition back to the types of clients you're working with. A lot of painting contractors aspire to charge higher price points, work on nicer jobs, maybe sign NDAs. How does somebody get there? If someone's listening and they're focused on mid-market work and want to move up, what's your advice?

Juan Vasquez: It starts with understanding your client. Jon and I had this conversation at the pool at the last PCA, and he gave me some great pointers. You've got to really understand who your client is and then sell to them. I've seen a lot of trends — there's so much marketing now, Google this, Facebook that — but these high-end clients are not going to find you on Facebook. They're not going to find you on Google. We don't want a lot of leads. We want really valuable leads.

How we do that is through relationships with designers, architects, caretakers, and high-end GCs. These clients don't ask, "How much is it going to cost?" They ask, "Can you do it? Have you done this before?"

We also do a lot of training. When we see a trend that fits our clients, we go all in and invest in it. For companies that are exclusive, we'll reach out and say, "Help me train in your product and I'll go sell it." Once we do that, we post it on social media and our website, and now our clients come looking for us. I tried the whole Google thing and it did not work for our line of business.

Michael Murray: What do you do to find more of these relationships? A lot of people can do the high-end work but can't sell it. What sales skills do they need to develop?

Juan Vasquez: I'm part of a couple of coaching groups, and that's helped me better identify and sell to my client. These high-end communities are tight-knit — one person knows the next person. Something simple we do that works really well is lunch and learns. Whenever we have a new product, we call our GCs and designers and say, "We'd love to show you something." We make up samples, show up to their office with burritos, and ask for an hour of their time. We show them all the samples, they fall in love with them, and then they go sell it for us.

For someone starting out, get a list of people in your area. What areas have the high-end houses? Who manages them — a GC, a designer, an architect, even real estate agents? Then create a package with samples they can touch and feel. Something we do that sells really well is putting an average standard finish right next to our premium finish. "This is where your average painter is, and this is what I'm selling you." That comparison speaks for itself.

Michael Murray: I love the sample board idea. We in the painting industry too often assume everyone understands the difference between products. A customer hears "Sherwin-Williams" on two different quotes and assumes they're the same thing — but Emerald and Pro Mar 200 are not the same product. A sample board removes the guesswork.

Juan Vasquez: Touch it, feel it. And most of the specialty companies we work with — Italian products, German products — their clients already know about them. When we approach those companies and say "help me sell your product," once we train with them, they add us to their network as preferred installers. Now they're selling us. "Who should I call in your area?" "We have Illusions — they've been pre-qualified." That's another way we leverage those relationships.

Jon Bryant: You mentioned selling on the spot. Are you actually closing deals in person, or does it work differently at the high end?

Juan Vasquez: It's tough. We do close smaller projects on the spot using PaintScout and our production rates. But larger projects are complicated. For something like Venetian plaster or lime wash, we have a stage one, stage two, stage three process. We go back to our shop, create a custom sample for that project, and once they love the sample, we say, "Based on this, here's roughly what it will cost." Then we close from there.

Jon Bryant: Are they basically sold before that point — like if you're doing samples, are they already committed?

Juan Vasquez: A lot of the time, yes. Our closing ratio is in the high 80s. Most clients calling us are not calling 20 painters. Like the job we visited today — they have a painter, but their painter can't do this type of work. So when we walk in, it's really just about negotiating the finishes. The cost usually isn't the issue because they understand the value. We've already built that relationship and credibility.

Jon Bryant: So "selling on the spot" at the high end is really about presenting the finishes, communicating the value, and confirming fit. The actual price comes after a multi-stage process. Is that right?

Juan Vasquez: Exactly. And some of these projects are massive. We're currently on one that's been going on close to three years — a residence. Eight to ten thousand square feet inside and out, cabinets, everything. We operate almost like a commercial business — 30-day net, jobs signed today that we might not start for two or three years because they're still being built. That creates cash flow challenges, which is why I started Kevin on smaller projects. Our smaller project average is about $10,000. Kevin's been through Jason Phillips training and is part of a group where sales reps from different companies meet together monthly to train. He carries his iPad, has his templates, and can close those deals on the spot.

Michael Murray: You mentioned an 80-plus percent close rate. Does that hold when Kevin is doing the smaller res repaint work?

Juan Vasquez: That comes down. He's around 48%, but we don't have a lot of data yet. With PaintScout, I can see how much Jose is selling and how much Kevin is selling. The reason our close rate is so high overall is that a lot of our business is repeat clients. Something we've gotten very good at is maintenance. When we sell a project, we say, "In six months, we want to come take a look at how your house is doing. If we missed anything, we'll take care of it at our cost. Around eight months, certain areas facing south may be showing sun fade — you might allocate about 20% of your budget for a maintenance coat. A year and a half later, we'll do the same." You're saving money by maintaining your investment. And every time we come back, they have a referral for a neighbor or want to add something new.

Jon Bryant: A lot of people forget they already have customers. Everyone's focused on, "Where do I get the next lead?" when the best leads are probably from people you've already worked for. When things get slow, do you stay in contact with past clients in a healthy, consistent way?

Juan Vasquez: That's why you have a CRM.

Jon Bryant: Exactly. That's why you do intentional outreach — a call, a text, just checking in. And everything always needs to be painted again. I just painted my hallway and could probably repaint it a day later.

Juan Vasquez: And it always happens — you're talking about the exterior and they say, "You know, I've been thinking about the living room. I finally convinced my husband." Perfect, here we are again. Your best client is your existing client. They already trust you, they already know you. Yet a very large number of painters finish a job and walk away. No follow-up. You ask those clients, "What about your painter?" and they say, "Honestly, never heard from them again." That is something that can really change your business.

Jon Bryant: And the data backs it up. Win rates on referrals and past customers are so much higher than on cold leads, yet we invest almost everything into chasing new leads and almost nothing into staying in touch with existing ones.

Juan Vasquez: Very true. And in California we can't even do door hangers — too many no trespassing signs. So for us, the relationship side is everything. Use Google and Facebook to get your name out there, especially if you're starting out, but understand what those tools are actually for. After you build some brand awareness, shift into the relationship side of the business.

Michael Murray: One last thing — you're on the PCA board, you speak at industry events around the country. What's your perspective on where the industry is headed? What significant changes have you seen lately?

Juan Vasquez: Great question. Social media and AI — there's so much out there, and I love that, but it's a double-edged sword. Nobody posts the bad stuff on social media. It's always going great, always the highlight reel. A lot of influencers make it sound like if you follow their formula, you'll be a millionaire. It doesn't work that way.

When I started, getting any information took days. Now it's at your fingertips. I told the group in Phoenix: I can sit here and tell you how to do so many things, but if you sit down with ChatGPT or Claude or any AI system, it'll do a lot of that for you. We're moving into an era where we need to learn how to use our resources. If we don't get with the times, the next generation will leave us in the dust.

On the workforce side: when I started, Italians ran the industry. Then Hispanics became the helpers, and now Hispanics are taking over. But as Hispanics, we often don't have a lot of business knowledge — we just want to be busy. And honestly, that tends to bring the industry down, because being busy becomes the goal instead of quality and profit. That drives prices down. But as we educate ourselves — events like PCA en Español, systems like PaintScout, content like this podcast — people start realizing they're not just doing a job, they're building a business. Nick Slavik has shown that a business bringing in over a million dollars a year with good structure can pay the owner $250,000 or more. A doctor makes $200,000. There is real money to be made here. We just need to use the resources, show up, and put in the work.

Jon Bryant: I want to go back briefly to one thing — finding the right customers. For me, it's sometimes been easier to start with the wrong customers. Who are the ones you never want to work with again? Understanding that helps you define who you do want. People sometimes get lost trying to define their ideal client from scratch. Start with the nightmare jobs, figure out why they were a bad fit, and work backward.

Juan Vasquez: But you have to have data to do that. If you don't have records, you can't identify patterns. And trust me, even we get into jobs and think, "What was I thinking?" But our philosophy is: if we're in it, we finish it and we do our best work. I know halfway through we've lost money. But I will not lose money, lose a client, and come away with a bad reputation. You have to think long-term.

Michael Murray: It's the long-term mindset — building customer relationships for life, building community relationships. That's where it starts.

Juan Vasquez: Exactly. And for anyone asking what to do first — take time to understand your market. Use ChatGPT, Google, whatever tool you have. If you're in a metro area, people are busy and social media and direct mail may work better. In a rural area, it's more personal touch. In Phoenix yesterday I met companies ranging from two months old to 15 years in business — and almost none of them had a real estimating system, a CRM, or any data on their own business. They were just out there trying to get jobs.

We also joined the Chamber of Commerce for several areas in our region. I show up to events and I'm usually the only painter there — among hundreds of painters in the area. That networking is incredibly effective. Are you spending an hour after work meeting people who can connect you with someone? We rely so much on Google and social media, but that personal touch will get you further — especially outside the big metro areas.

Jon Bryant: Any other resources you'd point people toward?

Juan Vasquez: PCA, obviously. Sherwin-Williams has done a lot — they have free training programs for painters in English and Spanish through their Learning Pathways, with actual certifications. PCA also has the Painters Accelerator Program, which is aimed at businesses between $500K and $1.5M. It's about $800 for a seven-week program — you can't go wrong for that price. YouTube, social media, your local chamber of commerce, BNI — just start getting involved. Get out from behind the brush and start being part of your community. A construction association, any local group. That's where you start building the network.

Michael Murray: And subscribe to Price Sell Paint, shameless plug. Nick Slavik's Ask A Painter Live is also excellent. There's no shortage of good information in this industry — and some bad information too, people trying to sell you stuff — but if you're willing to go find the good stuff and put the work in, the sky's the limit.

Juan Vasquez: And one thing I want to be direct about: a lot of people ask, "What does the PCA do for me? What does Sherwin-Williams do for me? What does PaintScout do for me?" The resources are there. What you do with them is up to you. If you want to scale your business, understand you have to put in the work. Some new generations think you don't have to work hard to make money — I'm sorry, but even a content creator has to work hard. That's where real success comes from.

Jon Bryant: Juan, I really appreciate you, man. Can people reach out to you directly?

Juan Vasquez: Absolutely. I drive around in my truck and I talk to three people most mornings. I don't talk to many people in my local area, but I talk to a lot of people throughout the country. Reach out through social media — and if I see someone who's genuinely interested and willing to put in the work, I'm happy to give my time for that.

Jon Bryant: Reach out to Juan on social media. He's a great resource for the Hispanic community and the industry as a whole. Always a pleasure, Juan. And for everyone listening — like and subscribe, it helps us know this is worth doing. Hit Michael up on LinkedIn. Thanks everyone, see you next week on Price Sell Paint.

Juan Vasquez: Thanks, guys.

Michael Murray: Thanks, Juan.

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