$4M in Painting Sales Without Relying on Company Leads // Dave Bryant

Jon Bryant: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Price Sell Paint Podcast. I'm Jon from PaintScout, as always with Michael Murray, and today our special guest is my brother Dave. Dave is an estimator at the painting company we've both worked at for many years. Check the leaderboards — Dave's up there. He's a guy who knows how to sell a paint job, and if you're a sales rep listening today, there's a lot of gold in these hills. We're going to talk about how to sell paint jobs, and specifically, Dave, your shift from residential toward commercial. You up for it?

Dave Bryant: I'm up for it. I don't know how many gold nuggets there will be, but let's see what you can get out of me.

Michael Murray: Dave's been on before — a multiple-time offender. Dave, give us some context. How long have you been selling painting jobs, and what do the numbers look like?

Dave Bryant: Six years in sales, mostly residential. But as Jon mentioned, the last year has been a shift toward commercial as we're growing. Last year I ended at about four million in sales. Win rate by number of estimates was around 62%, and dollar win rate was about 50%. PaintScout gives me all those numbers, so I just know them.

Michael Murray: Not too shabby. How many estimates are you doing a week?

Dave Bryant: It ranges between about eight and fifteen throughout the year, pretty consistently.

Michael Murray: And 100% of those are self-generated, right? Walk us through that — why is that your strategy?

Dave Bryant: For the last couple of years I really wanted to get off the lead line because close rates are lower on leads that come through Google and other marketing channels. If I generate my own leads, the close rate is higher and I waste less time. It took a few years to get there — it wasn't overnight. It's a lot of different activities done consistently, week after week, to maintain it.

Jon Bryant: The win rate's better on self-generated, and you also tend to get bigger jobs. People doing a $20,000 interior paint job want to know someone else used you. The networking piece creates introductions and opportunities you just wouldn't expect otherwise. You've talked about this at PaintScout X, and there's great content there to revisit. But give people a broad overview of your current activities.

Dave Bryant: Sure. And I'll be honest — it's changed over the last year as I've shifted toward commercial. It's similar stuff, but a completely different ball game because it's all relationships. Building and maintaining them is something I'm still learning. What's the right cadence? Twelve touch points a year? Twenty-four? Six, so you're not the annoying sales guy? I'm still figuring out that number.

The main things I've been focused on the last six months: I'm part of two networking groups. Each has about one event a month — lunches, a curling night in the winter, darts, different things. You mingle and you consistently see the same people. I make sure to get to at least two events a month across both groups. Those are a priority.

Michael Murray: What are the groups specifically?

Dave Bryant: One is BOMA — Building Owners and Managers Association. It's all commercial: buildings, property managers, that crowd. The other is a mix that's heavily property management, so I'm mingling with property managers, some realtors, and other vendors.

Michael Murray: I've heard BOMA can be a little hard to get into — do you need to be nominated or something?

Dave Bryant: In our city, not really. It might be more competitive in other markets. Some of their events are a lottery though — like their golf event, there's so much demand you don't always get in. If you sponsor, you'll always get in, but that costs more.

Michael Murray: On that cadence question — what have you settled on so far, even if it's still evolving?

Dave Bryant: I think around six to eight times a year, but these aren't just calls — these are actually doing something together. A lunch, the driving range, a dinner. You'll probably talk to them more than that, but actually spending time together: every couple of months or so.

Michael Murray: How many people do you have that level of relationship with?

Dave Bryant: Probably a dozen right now. I have a list — I try not to let it get too big, but every event you meet new people so it's always changing. If you get to twenty or thirty connections at that level, that's all you're doing. It becomes a full-time business development role and you can't do estimates and sell.

Michael Murray: Walk us through what a typical week looks like for you. Because I think a lot of residentially focused reps getting company leads say they don't have time for business development activities. Take us into your world.

Dave Bryant: When I was doing heavy residential sales, there were times I was doing too many quotes. If you're doing fifteen to twenty, there probably isn't time for business development. You have to limit your estimate volume. My ideal number residentially was around twelve. Above fifteen, I actually closed less — so it was less worth my time despite doing more quotes.

For my week now: I might do five or six in-person quotes. A lot of my other quotes I do remotely — I use Google Earth a lot for property management work. You can measure a fence in two minutes without going on site. I also do a lot of quotes from drawings from GCs and realtors. Limiting your on-site visits matters because a round trip to a decent-sized job can eat two hours.

This week specifically: I had two lunches with property managers, about an hour and a half each — noon to one-thirty. It's not a massive time commitment. It's basically one quote's worth of time. Golf is different — that's five hours, more than half a day — so I reserve that for the more important connections. Beyond that, I've always got ten to fifteen active projects, so there's crew communication, visiting job sites with crew leaders to walk through details. This morning I talked to a guy and booked a golf for next Tuesday. I do pastry drops to companies in the mornings — I always book those in advance, never just show up. I'll tell a property manager, "How's Wednesday at nine? I'll bring some pastries." That usually takes about an hour of my time.

I'm always booking things one to two weeks out, sometimes further. I have a wall calendar just to see what's coming up so I know when to plan ahead.

Jon Bryant: Let's transition to your move from fully residential toward commercial. You've had some interesting findings and roadblocks — it's a different world. What are one, two, three things that are completely different?

Dave Bryant: Turnaround time to win a job is way longer. Pricing is way different. Those two are huge learning curves I'm still navigating. Our residential pricing is just drastically different because the speed at which you can produce commercial work is so much faster. You don't realize that until you're on site and there's no furniture, no clients to paint around, usually no flooring.

Jon Bryant: What's the speed difference — percentage-wise?

Dave Bryant: As our crews get better at it — and they're learning too — I'd say on average twenty-five to thirty-five percent faster with the same roller and the same brush.

Michael Murray: I think it depends on what type of commercial. Large open spaces will paint fast. A bunch of small offices might not be that different from bedrooms. But I do think there's a significant saving in setup and cleanup — economy of scale. You're not going to a new job site every three or four days like on the residential side. Thirty offices isn't the same as ten separate three-bedroom house jobs.

Jon Bryant: And being able to incorporate that twenty-five to thirty-five percent into your commercial production rates is so helpful. It feels weird at first — really, thirty percent faster? But when does that scale actually kick in, Dave?

Dave Bryant: I think around $10,000 and up. Like Michael said, if you're on a job for a month instead of doing six jobs, you're doing one. After that ten-thousand-dollar mark — roughly the better part of a week for a crew — you start seeing the scale kick in.

Michael Murray: Do you have a completely different production rate set in PaintScout for commercial?

Dave Bryant: Yes — when I create a commercial estimate, I choose commercial and it takes me to a whole separate pricing setup. Everything's measured the same, but the speeds are different.

Jon Bryant: Third thing that's different?

Dave Bryant: Relationship building takes longer. With residential realtors, if you do one job and they trust you, you're in their book — you're their painter. Commercial takes longer to build that trust. You have to be seen multiple times, maybe do one or two jobs first. But the flip side is once that trust is there, the closing time shortens dramatically. They might even help you win a bid when there are five other contractors in the mix.

Jon Bryant: What's been the biggest surprise?

Dave Bryant: New construction pricing. I bid a new build — six-story condo, about 120 units, painting everything. I figured our new commercial rates were dialed in, so why not try it? My bid came back five times higher than the one that won. Five times. New construction is a completely different world from tenant improvement commercial work. That was a surprise.

Michael Murray: Good reminder for everyone listening: just because somebody won a bid at a price lower than yours doesn't mean they're making money or know what they're doing.

Jon Bryant: When you shared that story with me, I tried to run the numbers in my head and there's just no physical way that contractor is making money. Either they're doing watered-down paint and one coat on everything, or they're going to lose money.

Michael Murray: Two hours per unit. What could go wrong?

Dave Bryant: You quickly realize there are all different types of commercial. New construction just doesn't fit our model. There's no sales process there — it's entirely about price. No relationship, no value conversation.

Michael Murray: Right. There are spaces in this industry where the only value is cheap paint on the wall, and nobody cares what it looks like six months later because it won't be their problem. You can play in that space. There's just not a lot of money there and it doesn't sound like much fun.

Jon Bryant: Though you might want to follow up in a year or two and get that repaint.

Dave Bryant: In two years the hallway painting alone will cost what they bid the whole job for. I'll take that work.

Jon Bryant: Drop a flyer in every mailbox.

Michael Murray: Dave, what do you say to a sales rep who's hearing this and thinking — okay, four million dollars, self-generated leads, significant income — I'm in. How do they start that transition? Say they're currently at close to two million in residential and they want to move toward commercial self-gen. What do the first three to six months look like?

Dave Bryant: Six months is a good timeline because it doesn't happen quickly — similar to when you're starting out in residential. First, join a group that gets you in front of the right people fast. BOMA, or five or ten other options in your market that are property management or commercial-focused. Just start showing up. You'll meet one, two, three people every event. People will start recognizing you and saying, "I've heard of you guys — do you do commercial?" And then you say, "Yep, that's all I do." Because if your branding has always been residential, you have to start telling people you do commercial.

Second, go back to your top residential referrals. Ask a trusted realtor: do you know anyone in the commercial space? We're getting into it. Your existing connections will likely know someone. Referrals are an easy on-ramp.

I also tried cold calls, cold emails, and showing up to offices when I first started. There's a tiny bit of success there, but a warm connection is so much better. Cold calling property management companies when you're no one to them — it's not zero percent, but referrals are far more effective.

Jon Bryant: Activity breeds results. Just go do something. We've generated a list of activities that are beneficial for building relationships — unexpected intentional touches, ways to keep lines of communication going. As adults, we're not great at making friends. But it's really just: thinking of you, how did that project go, I'm having lunch, do you like lunch? These aren't complicated things. The key is tracking them. Without tracking and putting in the effort consistently, it just doesn't happen. You do that, Dave — you track activity, set markers, build referral trees. Talk about how you structure that side of things.

Dave Bryant: Activity is number one. But I'll be honest — there are weeks where I wonder if it's all working. I'll look at a networking group and think, has anyone from that group actually sent me a quote request in months? There are times it doesn't seem like it's working. But the reality is: more activity always works. You just don't always know where the result came from. That follow-up call, that lunch, that email — it eventually works. It's just hard to remember that during a slow stretch. If you keep doing it, it always comes back.

Michael Murray: A couple of things stand out for sales reps listening. One: AI is not replacing relationship building. That skill — and those relationships themselves — makes you incredibly valuable. If all your sales come from company-generated leads, you're replaceable. But if the relationships, the leads, and the sales all come from you, that's a complete package. It's a smart long-term career trajectory. Not necessarily in your first year, but if you see this as a real career, it's how you build something lasting.

Dave Bryant: And everything you do matters. I got a call this week from a number I didn't recognize. The guy introduced himself and I had no idea who he was — hadn't saved his number. Two years ago we had one phone call. He said it stuck with him that I seemed like I cared and was a good person. We never even met in person. He called me two years later asking if he could refer me to his clients. Everything comes back. You just might not know when.

Michael Murray: It's consistent effort over time. Like a fitness goal — if you judge your results after two weeks, you'll be disappointed and quit. But if you commit to the activity for a year without judging the results too soon, the outcomes will be there. Most people want the quick fix. The things that are truly valuable take consistent energy and effort. Don't think of it as going to lunch to get estimates. Think of it as going to lunch to build relationships with interesting people who will at some point — with some of them — yield painting work. Just don't know which ones yet. Do the activity, don't judge it too soon, and something good will come of it.

Dave Bryant: Well said. It takes time.

Jon Bryant: For those listening, the takeaways here are consistency, that change is hard but opportunity is everywhere, and that networking is a genuinely underrated skill. The leads that come from relationships are fundamentally better — higher close rates, bigger jobs, more trust. Michael, any final thoughts?

Michael Murray: We live in a transactional world. We're all inundated with marketing messages all the time — social media, email, direct mail, TV, and now AI making it even more intense. What I hear Dave doing is just: I'd like to build a relationship with you, get to know you, and see if I can provide some value. Most people are open to that.

The other takeaway: use your current relationships. Even if today is your first day as a sales rep, you already have relationships — neighbors, former coworkers, friends. Don't just ask who needs painting. Ask: do you know anyone who does property management? Would you mind introducing me? I'm trying to understand what they look for when hiring a painting contractor. And then from that person, you meet more people. You start building a spider web of connections. Two years later people are calling you out of nowhere saying that one conversation meant something and they're ready to talk about a project.

Jon Bryant: Dave, how many people are on your referral tree these days?

Dave Bryant: Too many. I've been trying to narrow it down and focus on the best relationships — the ones most likely to provide consistent work. My current focused list is around 30: general contractors, property managers, commercial real estate agents. But at different times there have been a lot more than that.

Jon Bryant: I walked into his office once and there were hundreds of names on multiple trees.

Michael Murray: Dave, thanks for being here. For anyone listening — Jon and I did an analysis some time ago of sales reps in the PaintScout network who've sold two million dollars or more, and one of the things that's valuable about having someone like Dave on is hearing from someone who's doing what you're doing, just at an incredibly high level. Four million in sales, consistently at the top of the PaintScout leaderboard. It's inspirational to understand what's possible in this industry — and to shift from "I can't" to "how can I?"

Jon Bryant: And Dave, you do some coaching from time to time — if anyone's interested in working with someone who does exactly what you do, feel free to reach out. We'll have contact info available. Dave, thanks for being on.

Dave Bryant: Always a pleasure. Happy to connect with anyone interested. Hope we can do it again sometime.

Jon Bryant: All right. Thanks for tuning in to Price Sell Paint. Give us a like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.

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