Setting the Table, Pain-Points & Closing on the Spot [Painting Sales Tips]

Jon Bryant: What is up everybody? Welcome again to another episode of Price. Sell. Paint. Jon Bryant here, Michael Murray, and we have an awesome guest today. We've got Russell Godoy from MBJC Painting. We looked at the top reps, top sales reps here in PaintScout, and Russell is in the top sales reps in North America. And we want to talk to Russell today. Very impressed, very impressive numbers. Welcome, man, we want to learn.

Russell Godoy: Thank you guys for having me.

Jon Bryant: We want to learn from you, one of the masters of our trade, of what you're doing. So we're excited. We have a lot of people who are interested. A lot of people want to know. And for the first time ever, we have a ranking system within North America to figure out who is the best. And Russell, we're excited to share some stats with you. We want to learn from you how you're getting these stats and hopefully make everyone better because I think there's a lot of head trash in our industry about what's possible. And we're going to throw that trash out. So let's start, man. We want to get to know you a little bit. Tell us a little bit about maybe your story in three minutes. Give us the overview.

Russell Godoy: Sure, sure. So for myself, when I moved from Chicago six years ago, and ever since I moved from Chicago, I've been with MBJC. I will say the best company in the Bay Area. Not just because I'm working here, but there is a lot of value here. It's not just about show up to work, but you can build your career. Like, for example, my story I'm going to give to you guys is how I built my career with them.

When I went in for my interview, I spoke to Mr. Vincent, who is our operation director. And he explained to us the growth track that you could have. And this is the first time I came to a company where they have from apprentice—we hire apprentice painter level one, level two. They go to a crew leader, advanced crew leader, field supervisor, and they go into a sales rep. So when I got the opportunity to become a sales rep, I took full action. It was very exciting. And that was one of my main goals when I first came out. I'm like, I'm going to be a sales rep at this company. At some point, I'm going to get too old to be climbing up on a ladder. So I've got to grow myself. It's the main thing—you could be out there for a little longer.

And Matt Jesse was the owner. He used to call me the additional work order king because I used to crush my goals. Later on to find out in sales, you have to be goal driven to also hit your goals. So that's about my story. And so far I'm having a lot of fun. It's having fun while doing your job. Because if you're not having fun, then it doesn't make sense for you to show up and just go to work, right? You have to have fun on the way.

Jon Bryant: Absolutely, man. That is a great story. And I think one that more people need to hear, especially more business owners, more companies need to hear that creating growth tracks and a place for people to end up is really the mission and the goal—opportunity. And dude, you're having fun. That's exciting.

Russell Godoy: That is correct. And having a friendly surrounding around your structure as well. That's definitely a help.

Michael Murray: Russell, I'd love to just real quick ask you about some of your goals. It sounds like you've hit two of your big ones. You wanted to be a sales rep and you did that. You wanted to be interviewed on the Price Sell Paint podcast and here we are. There we go. You're doing great. So what other kind of goals have you set for yourself? Here we are, as we're recording this, it's early May. So we're about a third of the way through this year. What kind of goals do you think about in terms of what types of metrics are you thinking about when you think about your yearly goals?

Russell Godoy: Yes, so we have a yearly goal, we have monthly goals as well. And then we keep track of those. Like for example, we have what's called a sales cookbook. And then it gives you your breakdown of what's your monthly goal according to your sales track from what you end up with. And then they give you your percentage on it as well. So it's really good to keep—just not thinking about the bigger picture of the big number at the end. But if you have a monthly goal, it breaks it easier for you. And we also do weekly goals. So you stay in tune on where you are at all times for your goal. So, you know, for me, my goal for each month is $290,000. So then I have to break that out and say, okay, how much do I need to sell a day? We go from there and go into months. So then that's how we come up with our goal for the end of the year. So from the beginning of March moving on to the end of the year, my goal would be $290,000. Last month I hit $445,000 I believe.

Jon Bryant: Amazing man, amazing.

Michael Murray: Crushing it.

Russell Godoy: And this month I'm on the same pace, about to hit about the same amount, around the same amount for this month.

Jon Bryant: So do you adjust that seasonally in San Francisco or is that just every month $290,000? How do you guys do that?

Russell Godoy: It is a mindset like what we were talking a little bit earlier just before we got on. You have to have the right mindset going into the month, into your day. Every day you wake up before you get your foot down on that ground, you've got to make sure your mind is right. So when you get to that door, everything's just going to be flowing and just having an exciting day. Have the right spirit with you when you're going out there.

Jon Bryant: Amazing. Maybe I should comment. This is a good spot to comment about goals, Michael, because I want to—Russell, I want to just tell you quickly kind of where you landed last year. So, drum roll. I don't know if you can hear that. I don't know if my mic's good enough, but we've got to. So your sales last year, which were just about $3 million, puts you at number nine, number nine in the PaintScout system. That's all for North America.

Russell Godoy: Wow, that's really amazing. Thank you. I'll take a note of that.

Michael Murray: Let's go!

Jon Bryant: Really amazing, man. Well done, well done. That's—you should take a note. You're the ninth highest seller and there's a couple of commercial guys in there too. So good to know. Residentially, I think number four, residentially, because I think your work is kind of primarily residential focused. And so that mindset has been huge for you. What's your goal this year? How much are you going to try to increase that?

Russell Godoy: My goal this year is $3.4 million. That's where they come by. My personal goal, I want to hit $3.6 million.

Jon Bryant: Amazing. So that would—

Michael Murray: I love it.

Russell Godoy: Just to make up from last year, because I'm a person—if I fail one month, I try to make it up on the next month. So for last year, I have to make it up a little bit extra.

Jon Bryant: Fantastic. So $3.4 to $3.6, that puts you—yeah, you'd be right in the top running for residential rep. The top rep last year sold $4.6 million. So keep that in mind. That's residential. That guy—yeah, exactly. We'll figure out where you're ranking.

Russell Godoy: That's going to be one of my goals next year to hit for sure. I'm going to be up there. Come back and discuss this next year. That's right.

Michael Murray: You're coming for them.

Michael Murray: Yeah, I'd love to hear, you know, let's just say, how do you think about—maybe within a month, if you're getting to maybe the halfway point of the month and you're a little behind on your goal, what kind of things do you do to try to push towards the end to hit your goals? Are you changing activities or different focus on different things? Talk about how you might treat things differently maybe the second half of the month if your first half doesn't go quite as planned.

Russell Godoy: Yes, for sure. So one of the main things I do is you have to know how to maintain your calendar. You have to control your calendar. For us, we have an admin in our office who schedules our appointments. So him scheduling an appointment, he doesn't know what—he's not reading my mind to say, okay, I'm going to block off this time for Russell because he has to get up on his goals. So we have to go in our calendar, block off that. And first of all, know where you're at. You have to know where you're at at all times. So if you're behind, what I would probably do is just make sure I relax myself, not getting too much of saying, "Oh my gosh, I'm not going to hit my goal anymore." But I start to strategize my situation, where I could go on call. Because sometimes we just get caught up going out and just doing appointments. But how about the hot leads that you're receiving? And instead of chasing something that you're not sure of—a ghost rather—than chasing something that is hot.

So go into your system, into PaintScout, you have that bracket where it says open bids and go in there and—I like to keep notes on my stuff so you know exactly which client and where they're at so you could give that person a call and check in and see, okay, the last time we spoke on the phone, you said if I reach out to you today, you're going to be having a decision. Where are we at with that decision? And trying to get that job closed. And then once you get that, it's about close and closure because then if you're getting closure, we have to be 100%. And then close is just for the win. So there's a difference. And the quicker you could get those out of your pipeline, it's best because then you don't have to worry about that head trash because then you're not focusing on the bad leads. You're focusing only on the hot leads that you have.

Jon Bryant: Really quick comment there, Russell. I'm just looking at the stats and I think in terms of open jobs from last year, you are number three for the lowest. I think you only had 16 open out of—let's see what you had. So you're practicing what you preach for sure. You had 426 bids last year and only 16 of them you didn't have an answer on. That's amazing, man. That's great numbers. So well done. Yeah, back to you Michael.

Michael Murray: I was just curious. I mean, if you want to talk more about that, how do you get such a good closure rate? Right? Like again, you said that 100% closure. Let's close them out. Talk about maybe your follow-up process. Do people give you an answer when you're there? I'm guessing you probably have to call later on sometimes. Talk a little bit more, maybe for somebody who's a sales rep and they're listening and maybe that's something they struggle with. They have a lot of customers that they don't get answers from. What kind of tips, tricks have you picked up over the years to be so successful with that?

Russell Godoy: So when I'm at my appointment, those are stuff that I set up. It's called a next step agreement. So making sure you have the next step agreement before you leave the job site. At the end of my conversation, if I don't close it on the spot, I will definitely have a next step agreement, whereby I'm telling the client, okay, when can we have our next conversation? Which date works best for you? What time works best for you? And not only that, but also send a calendar invite so that you're going to be on the same page and you let the client know. So with the client invite, we're going to be discussing X, Y, and Z. We're going to discuss if we're going to be moving forward. And I always let them know I'm okay with no. So if it's a no, please let me know. If I run into you at the grocery store, I will still say hi. So you give them that sense of relief that it doesn't feel like that pressure is coming out on them. So that's why you want to make sure the client is comfortable with you when you're doing those things. So when the next step agreement comes up, you know exactly where you're going to be falling on. There's no surprise there because then you're setting that table for that. And then it's just about once I do that, I ask them—because I'm not just going to say, when can I reach back out to you? And leave it at that. And then the client just says, okay, reach out to me on Tuesday. But what time? Because I might be thinking, okay, 11 o'clock might work for me, but 11 o'clock might not work for the client. So you have to make sure the time works for them and you make sure the time works for you as well. So it goes both ways.

Michael Murray: Sounds like even before you leave, you actually have your calendar out. Maybe it's on your phone or iPad or something. And you mentioned actually scheduling that. That's pretty cool.

Russell Godoy: That is correct. So we have full access on our tablet while we're out there. Because I do majority of my appointments, I get done—my proposal is done and set before I leave that appointment. Because we do a first walk around with the client. And then I do a second walk around after we already discussed the project. And then I put the bid together, go on PaintScout, taking pictures. And also, what I find out a lot that works best is when you take pictures and you upload it to your proposal. If it's the front, the right, the left, the concerns you and the client have discussed. So later on when you're doing that follow-up phone call, you could bring those things back up to the client. Or let's say, we've done one appointment, we go to the next, right? So you want to make sure when you're calling with this client, that will bring back a memory in your head and saying, this is what we discussed last time when we were there. So then everything just comes back like natural to you from what you're discussing with the client. And then you dig into the pain a little bit more.

Jon Bryant: Amazing man. Let's talk to you about this, Russell. So do you do anything pre-visit? Do you feel like it's successful for you to figure out whether it's a good client or whether it's worth the bid? Can you walk us through that? Is that important to you to figure that out or do you just go see everything?

Russell Godoy: So what I will do is in between appointments, I listen to podcasts. We have what I call the sales Bible, a little booklet from Nolan. And I will go through, just to keep my mind fresh, sharp when I'm going into my appointment. Maybe a few little things, try to remember what happened in my last appointment. Maybe I could have asked this question, so then now I ask that question in this appointment. And I go in my calendar just to check to see where the lead is coming from, what kind of project we're looking at, and stuff like that. So then, although you might say Google, I will still bring that up to the client. How do you hear about us? What gave you the interest of reaching out to us? So just having those little small conversations. And our admin will put little notes that he may get. Maybe the client doesn't want you to ring the doorbell, maybe they want you to knock. So little things like that, trying to pick up before I go into my appointments.

Jon Bryant: And do you call the customer, like when you get that appointment, are you contacting them before you go to see them or do you just go to the job and get that conversation about the job started there? How do you do that?

Russell Godoy: That is a great question. I will say some, not all the time, some of them I will do that too. Some clients, not all the clients. But which is good also because then how it helps is you're having a little bit of conversation with the client, feeling them out so when you get there, it's more of a natural—you and the client clicking off a little bit much better than if you just show up at somebody's house and knock, knock, I'm here. So I'm trying to get used to that though, to reach out to my clients before going through it the day before and then in the morning before I reach the client, just reach out to them to make sure that we're still going to have this appointment and the time is accurate. Because sometimes when you show up, some clients will say, "I have it for 11 o'clock" and then you have it at two o'clock on your schedule. So there could be a little bit of miscommunication for whatever reason, but if you make that phone call, you will find that out before it happens.

Jon Bryant: Awesome, man.

Michael Murray: Yeah, I know we're a fan of that at our company. You know, we really try to do those—we call them a discovery call, but where we're just having that pre-conversation, trying to understand the project a little bit better and set some expectations, you know, how long is the appointment going to take and make sure that the customer is going to be available that whole time or things like that.

Russell Godoy: Because once I show up also, those are things that I ask: Do we still have about 45 minutes of your time today? Is this a good time? Did I catch you in a good time today? Because sometimes they might tell you, "I only have 15 minutes" or "just walk around." And if a client tells me just walk around, that's when I do a no-no. I'll reschedule my appointment. I'm like, "Do you mind if I ask why is the reason why you want us to just do a walk around or so? Because for me, I want to see through your eyes. I just don't want to—I could guess anything once I do the estimate, but if you're walking with me, we could get a better scope of what exactly you're looking for. So I can meet your expectation to make sure the job gets done successfully according to what you're telling me. But if I do it myself, I cannot give you the right proposal that you're looking for." So then I will just ask if this is not the right time or not the right day, can we reschedule? Then I'll reschedule the right day with them and then get it out.

Jon Bryant: Do you do a finger wag, a little finger wag, Russell? No, no, no, no, no.

Jon Bryant: That's a great line. Yeah, it's so helpful. A lot of the times, I mean, Michael and I have talked a lot about this, that in the painting industry, we're building a product for the customer. You know, we're using PaintScout as a tool to create the product the customer wants. And there's no way to do that without talking to the customer and seeing it through their eyes, right? You're trying to interpret what their vision is. And so I love that you're—if that's not possible, I can't even do a bid. I'm really sorry. Right? So yeah, it's great.

Michael Murray: I'd love to go just real quick. So we talked a little bit about discovery. Talk a little bit more about what do you do when you first get there to the appointment? So you show up on site at the customer's house. Let's just use residential. And what kind of things do you do to maybe set the agenda with the customer and maybe set the expectations? I know you just mentioned doing that first walk around with them. Maybe just elaborate a little bit more on what kind of questions you might be asking, what kind of information you're looking for.

Russell Godoy: Yeah, I like that. So that's the most important thing in our process is setting the table, right? If you set the table right at the end, it should be easier for you to get that closure that you're looking for. Because if you just show up there and the client starts leading you, then that appointment is not going to go well. So we have to be the one taking in charge of the project, but without showing that to the client. Make the client feel like they're in charge. But you're the one who is in charge of the project. So when I arrive, I always make sure I have my business card. Knock the door, introduce myself, thank them also for the invitation for us to come out and give a proposal to them. After I finish that, before we take off, I just want to go over a few pointers before we get going on your project. And then I will break it down to them and the question is, do you still have your 45 minutes on your calendar blocked out for this day today? I just want to make sure that we're going over the project exactly—let's use exterior. I want both of us to walk the job so I can see through your eyes. And then I want to discuss concerns. What concerns do you have? What made you want to do your painting project now?

Then also I ask my very important question before the walkthrough is completed: to make sure they know we're going to be discussing budget. I'm a huge budget person. So before I start doing my proposal, I have an idea already where we're going to be ending up on this project. And then also letting them know, before I leave today, I want to make sure that me and you discuss this project. I want to go over it with you to make sure I'm not missing anything. And also to see if we're going to be doing business together. And if it's a no, please let me know if it's a no. I'm okay with no, but I'm also—if I feel like we're not going to be the right fit for you guys, I'm going to let you know it's a no as well. And I want to make sure that both of us are comfortable with that so that we can part ways as friends. And if I ever see you down the street or at a gym, I will still say hi to you. And they will laugh it off. And then also before I start my project, I also ask if they have any idea what something like this will cost. I never say budget because if you say budget, it rubs them a little bit differently. So I say, do you have any idea what something like this will cost or do you have any idea of what you're looking to invest? So you make it sound like something they're invested in than just, you're asking for a number.

Michael Murray: I love it. Yeah. There's a lot of intentionality there, Jon Bryant. I'm sure you hear a lot of the same thing coming out where it's providing the value, setting the expectations. This is an investment. You know, you do get what you pay for sometimes and things like that. I would imagine you guys aren't the cheap price. You know, there's always a lower price option. You're probably wanting more towards the higher end of the market. Is that right?

Russell Godoy: That is correct. And then you always tell the client, I am an upfront person and direct. Let them know we're not going to come in at the cheapest. But if we do come in at the highest, do we still have a chance of doing business together? Well, then that's going to help you when you find the pain and then you bring everything involved around the pain. So when you discuss that, your budget is the last piece, the number, because then if not, then they don't need to negotiate because then they are already in love with you. So they don't want to lose that.

Michael Murray: So you just mentioned pain. Talk a little bit more about what do you mean by pain? Maybe for somebody who's never heard of that in a sales context before, just elaborate a little bit more on what you mean by talking about pain.

Russell Godoy: You know, I like this conversation to be honest guys. We just had this with our sales team. Every Tuesday we do a sales meeting with our sales team, right? So we're discussing this and sometimes we go in as salespersons. We just show up, right? And you have questions in your head already. You're not listening to the client. You're just there, but you're not listening to the client. So you already have questions in your head so you're just thinking about, okay, I'm going to hit the client with this question now instead of listening to the client exactly what they're telling you. And if you listen to the client exactly what they're saying, majority of the time you're going to win that project. So you have to dig into that. Like for example, I have a client and for us we have to paint a picture, right? It's all about painting that picture for the client so they can see the vision of what you're selling. And the client—her pain was she every time she drives up to the driveway she can't look at her home. She is not happy. She goes to sleep, she can't sleep well. And then first thing for you to ask is not just like, okay, well, I'm going to change that, then you throw it up. That's not the right question. The right question is: Tell me a little bit more about that. What are you looking to do differently now? When was the last time your painting job got done? How was your experience with that painting company?

And those are the things that you need to find out from the client. Then sometimes the client, they have beautiful plants around the home. Or the last painting company came here, they just trashed our garden. So those are pain that you look for. And then if you bring those things up at the end, when you're discussing budget, it will be a much easier way to close your project.

Jon Bryant: Dude, I love that. I mean, it sounds like you're a bit of a detective, you know?

Russell Godoy: Yes, that is correct. That's a great word. I like that.

Jon Bryant: So, where were you on Tuesday night? I mean, sorry. It looks like your house needs a paint job. So, I mean, you mentioned something interesting there, which is that the pain leads to the price, you know? And so, we know this happens. You know, you do your job, you get all the pain, you get to that follow-up time, the next step agreement you mentioned, and you get that call, you're on the phone. "Hey, Mrs. Smith, that's Russell, I just wanted to make sure you got the proposal." "Yeah, hey, Russell, thanks, the price is higher than we were expecting." Now what? Russell, go.

Russell Godoy: All right, Mr. Smith, sorry. I guess we're not going to be the right fit here. No, that's not the way you close it. For that, I will go right back to where the pain was. Go over the conversation that you've been having with them when you're doing the walkthrough. Like for example, "Mr. Jon Bryant, you mentioned when we were doing the walkthrough, you can't stand when you drive up to your driveway because of the look that you're looking at. When you're sleeping, you're still having those nightmares. Is that still a concern for you here? You mentioned the last painting company when they were on site, they didn't communicate at all. They showed up when they felt like. They said they're going to show up at eight o'clock. They showed up at 11 o'clock. Is that still a concern for you? You mentioned to me that your windows are leaking. That's a huge factor for you. You want to make sure that that is taken care of. Is that still a factor for you?"

And then for me, I move with my head also. I'm a hand person on my head. So when I'm talking to them, I'm shaking, nodding my head to them so that they're going to be doing the same. It's like a smudge in the mirror, right? So if you're doing your head shake, they're going to do the same thing and they're going to say yes. So you get them to say back. You go back to where they're saying the small yeses. So then at the end they're going to say yes back to you. So I always bring it back by the pain and then go in for the kill. And then I'll come back and say—then majority of the time to be honest, it goes back into the right direction. And then you paint the picture for the client and tell them, I'm going to give you the best experience that you ever have. I will make sure that this stuff never happens on my job site. I will personally follow up with you to make sure whatever me and you're discussing is getting done on your job site. If there's any issue that comes up on your project, reach out to me at any time and I will be available for you. So you give them the assurity that you're not just the sales rep and then you're going to be taken off. Because somebody is going to be doing the project, it's not you going to be doing the project. So you want to let them know that you're going to still be involved until your job is closed 100%. That's when my job is completed.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, do you find that when you get into that conversation and someone says, hey, it's a little bit too expensive and you bring up those facts, are they generally willing to talk to you?

Russell Godoy: Yes. So what I do is I ask them, "Do you still have a few—10 minutes of your time? Can I grab 10 minutes of your time?" And then they will say yes. And then I will start going, dig back into it and ask those questions. Are those things still a concern to you like we were discussing?

Jon Bryant: Amazing. And that probably speaks to your high win rate too. I mean, I have a win rate here of over 50%. I know when we talked before, it was a little different, but that's really how you get there, I think, is with questions like that. You fight—you've got to fight for that middle, right?

Russell Godoy: And then again, it also begins with setting the table. Because if you don't set up the table, then it's not going to work. Because they're going to try to jump off that phone real quick with you because they never did bond with you. Sometimes it's not because they like you—majority of the time, right? You show up professionally. You're not just a guy showing up with just a Benjamin Moore logo shirt or something like that. You're representing your company right. You're well put together. You show up with your car. You show up on time. So they're looking at things like that. Sometimes it's just the bonding is not there correctly. So it's just refreshing back their memory. Because after we finish, they might have a next person come back. They might like that person as well, but they forget our conversation we had. So we have to make sure that we bring back that conversation. So they'll be like, yes, this was the guy that I wanted to talk to from the beginning.

Michael Murray: I want to talk a little bit about, you know, you guys just talked about the price objection. How do you handle it when somebody tells you that, you know, they're just getting more quotes? And, you know, maybe you're the first one out and you give them the price. They don't have enough information yet to maybe say that you're higher than they expected or whatever. And they just say, "All right, you know, thanks for coming out, Russell. We do need to get some more quotes." How do you talk about from that point? I think that's one of the most common things that we hear as sales reps in the industry. Do you just immediately set up that next step agreement? You know, great, let's have a call or do you have some more conversation about that at that point?

Russell Godoy: I definitely have some conversation about it because then I will bring up—let's use Jon Bryant. I will say, "All right, Jon Bryant, well thanks for your honesty first of all. I know you said that we are the first and that's totally fine. We typically will have that. We are the first person that comes out here. But can I ask you a few questions? Will it be okay?" And they will say yes. And then I go back again and say, "Well, when we were doing the walk around, you mentioned X, Y, and Z. And if we could cover that, will that give us any chance of doing business together? Is there something that I'm missing whereby you need to see a next proposal before you make your decision?" So I don't just glide over it. I want to know why you're looking to go get the next proposal because you just told me that you like the proposal, but you don't have anything to compare it to. But if you like me, why do you have to go and see something else? Well, what am I missing?

Michael Murray: So let's just say their answer is, "Well, Russell, you just got to get three quotes. I mean, that's just kind of the normal thing that everybody does. Got to keep you honest. Make sure that your price is accurate." How might you follow up with that?

Russell Godoy: Yes, so once they say that, then what I will do is step back a little bit and say, "Okay, it looks like we're not going to be the right fit here. Because you mentioned to me that everything that we are talking about, discussing, you like it. Is it because we're not going to be the right fit here? Am I missing something? Or can we backtrack a little bit and go over the proposal a little bit? Let's start back from the beginning. Maybe I'm missing something. So do you mind if we walk back this project again and discuss it from the start?" Let's have the conversation. I'm not going to run away from the conversation. Because if you get away from there, you're going to lose the job.

Michael Murray: Russell, I'm interested, what percentage—do you have any idea, give us, even if it's a guess, what percentage of the jobs that you sell, do you sell on the spot versus you sell afterwards during that next step agreement? Because what you're saying right now sounds like somebody who's going to be winning a lot on site.

Russell Godoy: On site, that is correct. I'm very good at winning on site to be honest. I'm not sure of the winning rate, but majority of my projects I sold on the spot. If I don't sell on the spot, following day or week in between, I'm closing. And that's happening recently. I've been doing that to be honest with you. I get quick follow-ups and quick turnaround back. Yesterday I was on a site for a two-story Victorian home. And I went out the first day to do the proposal and the client was not even on site. And I closed it on the phone with that client. But one of the reasons is we did the neighbors right beside them, but the client hadn't had any discussion with the neighbor. She just liked the job that we did. I'm like, "What do you like about it? Do you want to have the—is it the colors? Is it the preparation?" that you see from where it was before to where it is now. And it was a lead-based project too. So I love doing lead projects and Victorian homes.

Jon Bryant: That probably makes you in a very special category of people.

Michael Murray: Sounds like you also probably sell some pretty big jobs, I would imagine. Those are—

Russell Godoy: Yes, I do. Yeah.

Michael Murray: I can't imagine you're selling those for $10,000 or something like that.

Russell Godoy: The biggest job I sold on the spot, if I'm not mistaken, I think it's like $80,000.

Michael Murray: Wow.

Jon Bryant: Yeah. So how do you get your price on the spot, Russell? That seems pretty hard.

Michael Murray: Shameless plug coming.

Russell Godoy: Well, I could tell you PaintScout helps a lot. To be honest, it's due because then, like, for example, the Victorian home, they're pretty much similar, right? So all you do is copy and paste it. And then all you're doing is changing the name of it and then go through it. Because I always do detail whereby it's the front, the left, the right, the west and the north. So that the client could understand how we come up with the numbers. It's not just, okay, you're going to be doing XYZ and this is your number. So I always break it out. Like I said, take pictures, show them it as well. But I'm pretty much between 15 maybe 20 minutes at max, I'm done with that proposal.

Jon Bryant: Amazing. Man, I love hearing that.

Russell Godoy: But then again, everything has—I'm repeating this over and over. It's all about setting the table, making the client know at the end of this meeting, I will come back and knock your door. Are we going to be having a conversation about your budget?

Michael Murray: Russell, quick question on that. So you mentioned earlier that an appointment might take about 45 minutes, maybe to an hour. Does that sound about right to you? Okay. How much time do you think—again, I'm sure it changes a lot, but roughly how much time is there during the setting the table part at the beginning before you and the client or prospect part ways and you start doing your measurements? How long does that typically take?

Russell Godoy: I'll say about 35 minutes. Yeah, because I'm going through everything. I'm stopping at every point having a conversation with that client. If they're not seeing something, I ask, and I also ask, is it okay for me to ask questions? So whatever we're not seeing or you're not discussing, and if I see something, I want to bring it up. Because then you get them comfortable by you asking questions as well. Because then you have to picture that your concerns about the project as well. You're not just going to come here and throw paint on my project.

Jon Bryant: So 35 minutes pre-meeting, you get your estimate done in 15 and it's super accurate. The customer loves you, you've got your pictures. Then you're meeting with them after, you're talking about moving forward. And yeah, sweet.

Russell Godoy: Also, what I do before I reach there is I give them a ballpark. I also give them a ballpark because then sometimes even if you say I'm going to give a ballpark, I ask before I go to ballpark, I usually ask them what do they think something like this will cost? If they don't give me anything from that—"that's the reason why you're here"—I will say, "Of course, that's the reason why I'm here. But the main thing is," then my response back will be, "Well, for something like this, and this is what I do every day, just doing estimates, showing up, going to clients, meeting different people, for something like this, roughly will be between $15,000 and $18,000. Is that something you're thinking about?"

Then either way, you see that—hmm, that's way too high, so then you have a little bit more conversation around that again. So first you mentioned you didn't have a ballpark. No, you were getting somewhere. So what are you thinking? If those numbers are high, what are you thinking? You definitely have a number and I will tell them, "Let's have that discussion. Be upfront, be direct with me. I'm going to be direct with you and I'm going to tell you if we're going to be the right fit or not."

And then the client will tell me, "Okay, this is about—I was thinking more about $13,000." "Okay, if I come back with your proposal and I come in around $13,000, does that give us any reason of doing business together? Can we get that signature after I finish from here?" And then I also repeat to them like I mentioned before, that's just a ballpark. It could be less or it could be higher, but that's just a number that I think it will come in at. I still have to run it through my system and this will give me the accurate price.

Michael Murray: And so that ballpark is based on just experience. You know, you've done enough of these.

Russell Godoy: Based off experience and after conversation what we have and when we're doing the first lap around.

Michael Murray: Gotcha. Yep. Makes sense.

Jon Bryant: My favorite thing to do back when I was selling paint jobs as well was I would do that same thing, but then I would say, this is going to be between one and a million dollars. Does that sound like we're good business partners? And they'd say, "I thought it might be more like $12,000." And I was like, okay, well, let's talk about that.

Michael Murray: We've got to say, yeah, let's be closer to that one.

Russell Godoy: Right.

Jon Bryant: And so, yeah, I used to be closer to the one, exactly. And so I think what's funny in this discussion is it doesn't matter the numbers, if you just ballpark, give them a range, even if it's funny, it is worth doing because it gets you talking about the price.

Russell Godoy: That is correct. That's my MO on it. It's not just to say, okay, that's the number. Because everybody has a number, right? But it's just to get that conversation going about the budget part. And then later on when you come back in, now you have a better conversation with it.

Jon Bryant: Dude. Yeah, this is great. Russell, I think we're going to wrap this up here today but it has been awesome to chat with you. I mean, you have a fantastic system. Your results last year were phenomenal. I'm cheering for you to be number one on PaintScout this year. I think you're pretty close. Interestingly enough, we're going to start getting rankings out to people pretty quickly so you can see that on a monthly basis how you're doing. But there is so much people can learn from you, Russell. You're a wealth of knowledge. Your story is great going from being a painter to now being one of the top sales reps here in North America. You should be proud of yourself. It's fun to talk to you. And yeah, so Michael, any closing thoughts on your end?

Russell Godoy: All right. That's amazing.

Michael Murray: No, yeah, you're crushing it. I personally learned a lot. I'm excited for our sales team to listen to this conversation. I hope everybody that listens takes a lot away just from the way that you answer things, and how intentional you are, especially like, again, talking about setting that table, having that really in-depth conversation at the beginning of the appointment is going to make everything a little bit easier once you get to the end. We've done a good job of setting expectations and having an agenda, having these more direct conversations about pain and what the customer's expectations are. Those are some of my takeaways. I'm excited to talk with our team about how we can do better based on this conversation. So yeah, definitely appreciate your time. Thank you.

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