Selling with Color: How Color Consults Close More Jobs

Jon Bryant: All right, welcome back to the Price Sell Paint podcast. Jon Bryant here with Michael and today we have a special guest, Amanda Bryant, my sister. We are talking about color. Amanda is a color expert. She's been doing color consults at our company that have been paid for a number of years now, taking that toward the next level for our customers. And honestly, it's been a huge part of our sales process and a real, real differentiator. And we're excited to talk with you, Amanda, just a little bit about how this all works so people can learn from the things you do and really take their sales process to the next level. So welcome to the podcast.

Amanda Bryant: Thank you. It's exciting.

Michael Murray: Now, I was told that Amanda was here to share embarrassing stories about Jon Bryant from his childhood. Is that not the topic of today's conversation?

Amanda Bryant: That's what I was told too, so yeah.

Jon Bryant: There is zero embarrassing stories. That's the problem. So good luck with that.

Michael Murray: All right, we'll see. Maybe they're more recent. Yeah, I'm excited. Hey, Amanda, excited to chat about colors and how important that is in the sales process. Maybe give us a quick background. How long you been working at Urban Painter? And talk a little bit about what your role is there.

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, so I've been with Urban Painter full time now for four and a half years and had contracted color consults for, I believe it was like six or seven years prior to that. So I've been doing that quite a while. I have an interior design background and I think color is one of the coolest parts about interior design. It's really personal and it really affects our daily lives more than you think it does. So I love being able to help people with that daily and make sure they're happy.

Michael Murray: Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned now you're full time. So talk a little bit. I think there's probably, I would imagine, many listeners maybe that don't work at a painting company or own a painting company or whatever their role is where they have a full time designer or color consultant on staff. So just talk a little bit about how and where do you fit into the whole sales process and specifically what your role looks like and maybe even some of the measurable things that you're working towards to be successful in your role.

Amanda Bryant: Sure. Yeah, I'm mentioned right at the start. So when someone submits a request for a quote, our office manager will call them and she mentions if you do need help with color, that is a service that we offer. So from there, it's forefront mentioned there. And then next, if they book a job with us or they get a quote, the sales people also mention that. So if the person is hesitant on color, what to do, they just need some help, some second eyes, I'm mentioned there again.

So by the time it comes around to that person booking a quote, they are pumped to have me come in. It's a one-on-one, one-hour consultation in their home. And I bring all the swatches, all the larger samples and we go through and yeah, just walk through the project tailored. I think it's such an important way that contributes so much to the sales process because that is such a daunting thing for people. So as soon as they hear, we get a professional designer to come in as well, it's almost this luxury experience for them. It's not just painting their walls the same color. It's like maybe we can actually do that cool feature wall that we thought we wanted, but didn't know how. Yeah, it's a little cool.

Michael Murray: Yeah. Yeah. I resonate with that a lot. You know, at Textbook, at my company, we are very similar. I think there's a lot of similarities between how we run our company and how you guys do as well. We have an interior designer on staff, very similar to your role. And, you know, I think when we made that investment, started kind of as a part-time role, like you were describing. I feel like the argument that I always made in my mind and even to others is that if a customer is overly stressed about selecting colors, one of the things that our sales team is competing with is them just not doing anything at all.

The thought of I'm going to pay thousands of dollars to have somebody come into my house and paint it and I'm going to end up with a color that I like or I don't like, or I like less than I currently have is super intimidating and stressful. And so, you know, I think that is a huge unlock in our industry is to just really help customers take away that stress and anxiety of how do I pick the right shades? And there's so many different options. And then if we're going to get into accent walls and multiple colors and multiple rooms and open floor plans and trying to make all this stuff work together, it's intimidating and stressful.

And similar to what you were just saying, it's like the sales team gets to use that as an opportunity to say, no, we're going to make this easy for you. We're going to send Amanda in afterwards. You'll have this one hour consultation. And I can see how that's a huge unlock for the sales team. And it's kind of similar where we are too. So that's awesome.

Jon Bryant: So here's my question. So the sales process, I mean, obviously that gets done previous to you being in the home. But I think for a lot of the people listening, I imagine we're getting questions about colors during the consult. If you're a sales rep or a business owner doing the sale, obviously we know that's a stressor for customers. I think it might be the number one. Second is who's doing the work. But number one is color. That's why people are motivated to do this stuff. So what I'm curious to know is if you have any suggestions for anybody listening that isn't a designer, but wants to start facilitating a conversation, do you have some go-to ways of getting into the conversation or making that comfortable?

Amanda Bryant: Are you talking about with a sales rep or a client?

Jon Bryant: So with a client, so when you come in, you're going to talk about color, but for a lot of people, talking about color is just a standoffish thing. I don't know anything about it. I don't want to do anything about it, but is there anything you could offer people that helps you facilitate good conversations?

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, I start off with some pretty basic questions. One is a big one. Do you work from home is a pretty big topic. You know, do you want a dark house? You want something fresh that you're around all the time? A lot of lifestyle things, like if you're hosting, do you like that? Do you always have your windows closed or are they always open?

Jon Bryant: Yeah, a little bit. I think of the question, a customer, you're in a sales situation and a customer says, I really need some help with color. That's what's driving this decision. And obviously you get to come in after the sale is done, but when you're asking those questions, do you find that, what is the information you're getting back from people that helps you narrow things down a little bit?

Amanda Bryant: Okay, so a big thing is color evokes feeling and I think a lot of people don't recognize that. They might just have a color that they've lived with for 17 years and they kind of are like, yeah, it's a beige from early 2000s, it's good. But it really does evoke emotions and feelings. So if you're in a space with a really cool toned gray, it's going to feel cold. It's going to feel kind of sterile. It's not really welcoming.

Whereas if you have the perfect shade of this creamy white, that's just not too yellow, not too brown, but it kind of complements your furniture nicely. It's warm, it's inviting. It's somewhere where you want to hang out, where you want to bring people. So it's kind of getting these little feelings from people like, yeah, how do you want to feel in your own house? Do you want it to feel fresh? Do you want it to feel warm?

But then there are those other sides of it where people do like those cool tone grays and they're like, no, it feels really clean to us. It feels just simple, clean. And lighting is playing into a lot of that too. So that's a big thing, would you consider changing out light bulbs or yeah.

Michael Murray: I'd love to go down that line of thought just a little bit more. Maybe just provide a little bit of color theory background for the listeners. Maybe it's sales reps that are listening. Generally understand that color evokes emotions, like you just said. But talk a little bit more specifically. You mentioned lighter colors, darker colors, maybe more vibrant colors. And how do you match that with how somebody wants to use their space? If you could just maybe give us kind of an intro. I know that you can go to school for this type of stuff, so I don't expect you to drop all of your knowledge on us. But give us a little bit of a primer on how certain color groups might evoke different types of emotions and how you might match that to somebody's desired use of the space.

Amanda Bryant: Yeah. So there's one I always find funny. Some people don't know, but a lot of fast food signs, just to give you an idea, like McDonald's, Wendy's, Chick-fil-A, they always have red in the logos. And so red is a color that naturally when we see it, it's like, I'm hungry. It just gives you this feeling of hunger.

Jon Bryant: So paint your kitchen that color if you want to gain weight.

Michael Murray: Bright red.

Amanda Bryant: But I wouldn't paint my living room red. There's actually color psychology in it too. Greens and blues are more calming and then reds, oranges and yellows are more vibrant and energizing. So it really depends on the function of the space, I think. And then, so lighter colors and darker colors, darker colors can feel more cozy and kind of bring a space, make it feel a little bit smaller. So maybe it's a big space, it feels really vast. You can do a darker color, kind of brings it in a little bit, warmer, cozier or mid tone color. Whereas lighter colors are meant to brighten it up, make it feel open. It just gives the illusion of a bigger space. Yeah, that's kind of the basics, you know.

Michael Murray: Thanks.

Jon Bryant: All right, I've got another question. What are some of the options for helping people decide if the color's right? Obviously you've got the color chips. Is there any other things you offer customers that gets them comfortable with the color before you start to use it?

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, you might know a little bit about this thing called the Urban Color Box. So it's a really cool tool that we have at Urban Painter. One of the most important things is testing the paint color before you're putting it on your walls. I can go in and show people paper swatches and they're kind of a matte finish. They're small, you can kind of get a feel for it looks good beside the backsplash or the flooring or something.

What we do at Urban Painter is send them a little test box. So I like to limit it to three samples so it's not overwhelming someone. So if they're looking at a white for their walls, it's not giving them 10 different white options. That's not helping. So I like to just limit it, have three colors or less even, just a couple options. But they get this and they can actually apply paint to their walls. And it's just such a helpful thing. You can see the color throughout the day, in the morning light, afternoon, the evening, and then in your own lighting in your house.

So that's going to make a huge difference. Say you have a creamy color and it looks great in daylight, but then you turn your lights on at night and it's yellow. So it's just so helpful. It helps us solidify the color before the project starts and really eliminates any issues prior to painting. So we're putting on paint, the customer knows what they're getting. It's not a surprise. I find a lot of people that do just go off a little swatch, they're often going to run into an issue of it has this purple undertone. I didn't want that. I wanted just a gray. And it's so common to get these purple undertones in a gray. It's not a nice color. It's just how it is. So I love having the feedback from it too. People love it. It's just so helpful for them to visualize.

Michael Murray: I think the color box is amazing that you guys do. There's certainly a big logistical lift to it. You know, we've tried to think about how we might incorporate it and there's a lot there, but I love how you guys do that. I mean, it's so on brand and you guys have fun with it. It has that whimsical, playful, but also very professional feel, which I think is right on brand for you guys. Just talk a little bit more about how, like, how does that flow? Right. So when does the customer get that color box or the samples, right? Even if it's not done exactly the same way that you guys do it. I think there's some information on the website that somebody wanted to understand it a little bit better. But the idea of doing a dry down sample or giving the client a small amount of paint to do that themselves, does that happen before you meet with them? After you meet with them? Talk a little bit about that some more.

Amanda Bryant: Yeah. So I'll meet them in their house. And then from there, I do my very best to eliminate a lot of options and just bring it down to those, depending on the project scope, it's usually about three colors, but it could be a little bit more if they wanted to test a feature wall color that's completely different. So from there, after the consult, I will order the color boxes.

From our two main suppliers, they will actually build the boxes at the stores and deliver for us, which is awesome. They have all the materials there. So it's a little box. They do our samples up for us. We throw in some crayons that you can color the box with, all the paint dries. It's kind of our thing, you know, keeping Calgary colorful. So you can color the city of Calgary. It's got an apron in there and then a couple of little things like a mini roller, there's some instructions on the best practices for it, like when to view the colors. Yeah, it's pretty fun. I think a lot of people really like their surprise when they see this thing show up and it's a really cute little box.

So I usually order that directly after the consult. And then typically the consults are done a week or more in advance. So I will do my best to get those ordered right away and delivered within the next couple of days. And then the customer has a few days to test the samples out, see it in different lighting. And then I send an email as well. And then any color questions that they have, they direct them to me and we just solidify their choices ahead of time. That way when the job starts, even days before the paint's ordered, it's ready to go, it's delivered to site. It's a pretty seamless process for us.

Michael Murray: Cool, thanks. Yeah, thanks for explaining that.

Jon Bryant: So for those people who don't have this luxury of giving the actual paint to the customer, do you ever give large samples, Amanda? Like how you can get those at Benjamin Moore, Sherwin-Williams? Will those help at all?

Amanda Bryant: Yeah. Yeah, it's extremely helpful. Both Benjamin Moore and Sherwin-Williams, you can sign up for these designer accounts and it's free. And you can order eight and a half by 11 inch sheets of the samples. So it's still the paper swatches, but what I do for those customers, say they don't have possession quite yet and they can't go in and put the samples up on their wall or maybe they're just not interested in that little bit of work. I will order four to six sheets of each color. And I always tell them, just tape the backs together and you can put that on your wall and kind of same thing, move it around in different rooms, see how the light hits it, see how it changes. And that's a free service that they offer. So super helpful.

Another thing is sometimes stores have these giant stickers of the colors. So that's another option. Yeah. I mean, they've got the one stick on them. Yeah.

Michael Murray: Do those work well?

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, printed really nicely. Yeah. Again, it's just the sheen difference. So you get paper versus an actual eggshell on a wall or a satin. So it does affect it a little bit, but you get the big idea from it.

Michael Murray: Yeah, makes sense.

Jon Bryant: Amanda, what's your take on doing virtual color estimates, color consults? Is it worth it?

Michael Murray: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that too, right? At least where we are, that's what Sherwin-Williams does. So we're in Cleveland where Sherwin-Williams is headquartered. I remember, I think Sherwin-Williams tests a lot of things. In the almost 20 years of doing this, I've seen a lot of Sherwin-Williams' different iterations of their color consultant process. And now, to my understanding, we have it in-house. We don't use it. But I think it's all Zoom. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, or virtual.

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, so I actually did a secret shopper kind of thing with them and I did a color consult with the Sherwin-Williams rep. It was interesting. So one of the most important things for me is lighting. Which direction is your house facing? Are you getting south facing light? Are you getting north, east, west? So that's going to affect you throughout the entire day.

That's, I think my biggest struggle with the process is they might see it in a specific lighting or oftentimes people are sending realtor photos and they're overexposed and they look really, it's like, yeah, that color is not that dark, but then the lighting is going to affect it so much. My personal experience was I didn't find it that successful. I think an in-person, see how the color works in your house is so important.

Of course, there's those go-to colors that nine times out of 10 are going to work really nicely, just neutrals. But I think there's a powerful, it's such a powerful tool to have an in-person consultation. You can get a good idea from someone online, but I don't think it's always the best option. I appreciate the service, but not my favorite.

Jon Bryant: How many colors do you recommend? Like what's the... Do you have like five colors that you recommend all the time? I never really asked you about this. Sorry. Okay. Whoa, take it easy.

Amanda Bryant: No.

Michael Murray: Jon Bryant's trying to come up with a way to pay you less. How easy is your job? There's thousands.

Amanda Bryant: Okay, one thing that I've worked with many designers. Yeah, right, man. Nice try. I really, it's funny. So I've worked with a lot of designers, worked in commercial and residential and Chantilly Lace is the go-to white for everyone. It is my least favorite white. I rarely recommend it.

For a couple of reasons, it's horrible coverage and it often causes a headache. But it's also a cool toned white. So people are always thinking it's this very neutral white. It's just white. But in my opinion, it's actually pretty cool toned. I painted my house in Chantilly Lace and I really don't like it. It doesn't have this warmth in it. It's funny, I approach every project as a unique project. I'm not going in and thinking they're just going to do White Dove or Chantilly Lace. I really want to see, I ask these questions. I want to connect with the client and then kind of search for a color. I find that it's like this matching game almost, the perfect color for this person.

There are the colors that pop up often if they're doing white trim. There's some pretty common colors that do pop up for that. And there are colors online that are the forefront. So they're like the Chantilly Laces of the world. If you search white paint, it's going to come up with that color. But I really think there are so many options. Let's use them. There's so many different ones and some of them are bad, but for the most part, there's some better options than that out there.

Michael Murray: You mentioned before, when you give out the color box, you don't want to give them too many samples to have to work from. How about before that, when you're looking at just the color swatches, kind of back to that question you were just talking about, there's hundreds of different whites. I mean, even if we just said, hey, Benjamin Moore, Sherwin-Williams options, there's other manufacturer's options as well. But if we just went to those two, I mean, there's hundreds of whites, would you say? Variations of white. And so if a customer says, you know, I want white kitchen cabinets or white trim or white walls. Do you lay out hundreds of options and say, you know, here's what we've got to work from, or how do you kind of limit that without maybe doing what Jon Bryant said and just say, okay, well, there's one white. How do you strike that balance?

Amanda Bryant: Yeah. First thing I look at is any finish around it. If we're looking, say if we're doing a kitchen, I want to see the backsplash, the countertops, the hardware, the flooring, and then trim colors. So that's going to influence that a lot too. What trim is connecting to that. Is there a door in the kitchen? All of those things are going to determine the undertone of the white. So if you're working with a lot of older homes that have warmer finishes because that was pretty common. Gray was a new thing. It was this revolutionary thing 10 years ago or whatever. So often...

Jon Bryant: It's like you always say, Michael, I mean, there's definitely more than 50 shades of gray in your life. You always say that. I can't even count the amount of times.

Michael Murray: Is that what I say? Is that a book or something?

Amanda Bryant: I've heard that about you once.

Michael Murray: I'm too old to know what that reference is.

Amanda Bryant: Come on. Yeah, so I mean, all the finishes around that area are really going to influence the white. And then from there, I'll choose, I do have my favorites, of course. It makes me look like a pro. I use this one all the time. It's amazing. Sometimes I just say that. But it's confidence, you know? Just gotta fake it till you make it.

Michael Murray: Wait, in sales? You just have to fake it till you make it sometimes, huh? I like it. Okay, that's good. Drop of knowledge. That's right. If you're not confident, they're not going to be confident. I like it.

Amanda Bryant: Exactly. So I like to pull out a few and then I say, is this kind of along the lines of what you were thinking? They're like, I don't know. And then I'll pull out some of the bigger swatches. So I never want to overwhelm people. I never pull out more than three because as soon as you pull out three whites, even two, they look exactly the same. And that's I think where people get really frustrated and confused. They're like, I don't know.

So I also, what I do is also pull out something that is significantly different. So not choosing like Pure White and Snowbound. It's like, you're not going to see the difference. So I want to choose something that's like a high reflective light and maybe a Greek Villa. That's a lot more pure white and something with yellow. So you can actually distinguish between the two. Like, okay, this one has the more yellow. This one's a little bit more white. Oh yeah, yeah, I see that. So I get a lot of those, yeah.

Jon Bryant: Oh yes.

Michael Murray: Even if they don't.

Jon Bryant: How many times have you picked a color where the person just goes with your recommendation just because? They just have no idea.

Amanda Bryant: I mean yesterday didn't have a hot clue. It's like, yeah, I mean yesterday actually was three, three for three. So, yeah, it really is about confidence too, but I also have the understanding of the undertones. I love seeing those little distinguishing features between them because they're there. That's the reason there's a hundred different whites. They're not just the same.

So it's having also been a part of the paint industry for so long, I have been able to see a lot of those before and afters and having also applied it at some point in my life too. Yeah, it's understanding and knowledge is really helpful.

Michael Murray: A question that comes to mind from what you were just talking about, right? So you said that yesterday customer really just went with your recommendation. How do you avoid maybe the liability of a client upset after the work is done? I don't like this color and Amanda picked it and you guys need to repaint this for free or I'm not paying or whatever. Take that to whatever extent that you want. How would you recommend a company maybe avoiding those types of issues?

Amanda Bryant: Enter the color box. So I still like to send color samples to the clients because, again, it's just so they can see it in their own house. If I'm meeting with them at 10 in the morning, they might not like that color at 4pm. I just want to make sure they see it at different times of the day. But for, it's pretty, it can happen here and there where people are like, no, I don't want the samples. I just trust your opinion. It can happen.

And what we always do prior to a job starting is a color sign off. So the painters will actually apply a section of paint in the sheen that it will be. So it's the actual product and sheen that the customer can then sign off on it. So that is also another way of just a liability thing of they're not going to go to work and then come back and their entire house is painted green. They're like, I hate this shade. I have to live with this.

Michael Murray: Just that question maybe either one of you answer but just logistically at that point I'm imagining the painters have shown up with whatever gallons of paint in that color. I got to imagine if the customer says they don't like it, is there a cost involved there but maybe less than if we'd already painted the whole house or how does that get handled in those circumstances?

Amanda Bryant: Jon Bryant, do you have any insight on that?

Jon Bryant: You know, it's funny is that, I mean, previous to us putting a lot of effort into the color selection process, we had that issue all the time. We'd show up, we'd do the sample and people are like, I don't like it, but I don't think it happens that much anymore.

Amanda Bryant: It really doesn't. So sometimes it happens that we choose a color, but we end up getting it matched in a different brand. And then the color can be off. So that can happen. But thankfully those suppliers, when they see the color match and it's not right, they do take care of that. So it really hasn't happened in a long time and I'm really thankful for that because I feel that personally. I'm like, no, I really messed this one up. So it's not a good feeling.

Michael Murray: Yeah, make sense.

Jon Bryant: So one of the maybe one of the last questions I have for you, Michael maybe has another last question, I don't know. But for me, it's the process of helping people with color builds a lot of trust. We just know this. And so what are some areas where you've seen opportunities to upsell in the color experience?

Amanda Bryant: There's lots. So say someone just gets their walls quoted and I come in. What I always do with a wall job is I match the trim first, whether we're painting it or not. I want to be able to see that in the paper swatch as well, because again, the sheen is going to reflect the light differently when I hold the other paper swatch up to it. So I match the trim first and then I show them the wall options that are going to complement that.

There's a lot of time where people are like, I didn't realize my trim was so yellow or so creamy or I don't like that. And that's a huge opportunity for upselling and say, well, you know, you can, here's your options. If you change your trim up, that's a really great way to do that. People view a designer coming into their home as more than just the color consult as well. There's always more questions like, oh, I actually had this question about my dining room, what do you think of this?

They might show me something like a new table or a rug or something. Okay, that's really nice. Why don't we draw a color out of there and do a feature of some kind, like kind of mimic the color somewhere else or add it in. We've got bathrooms that might have really bad lighting that maybe they need a different color in there and it's brightening it up and sometimes that's three coats. So that's also going to just be a little bit extra.

But then a lot of times people don't notice this flow through their house. So maybe they just got their main floor being painted but then they need that second set of eyes. You're like well the sight lines are going to be weird if you cut it here. So let's carry it all the way up here to the top of the stairs and the landing. There's little things like that that can really impact the overall final project.

Jon Bryant: And then that's just another opportunity to pass it back off to the sales rep and say, Hey, there's some opportunities here. Get some pricing, give options. Obviously let the customer have the control of whether they want to do it. And I think options in this case are really, really valuable. And I think people appreciate it.

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, it gives a price to it. So then maybe they're not going to do it right away, but they at least are like, Hey, that's what painting my kitchen costs. The designer said this will look really nice. We'll think about it. And then they might come back and paint their kitchen with us. So it's kind of snowballed from there.

Michael Murray: Yeah, it's definitely a different atmosphere when you're meeting with a client versus a sales rep meeting with a prospective client. Their guard's much less up in that scenario. You've, the company's already earned that trust. They've already committed to spend money with you guys. And your recommendations probably hit differently than if a sales rep suddenly saying the same thing, just because of where we are in that building of trust.

And as well as just in the expertise, this isn't just paint sales rep guy who's telling me I should add an accent wall. Because of course he is so he can sell me something. But this is now the designer who has this expertise and cache, if you will, of being able to, I really do like what this person's saying and the recommendations. And you are uniquely positioned to be able to do that where a sales rep might have a hard time doing that.

Jon Bryant: I think there's a lot of value too in this idea of when you're doing a sale, as a sales rep to go in low. And I don't mean misrepresent the project, but don't try to include more than you have to. Because people look at that price first, they're like, Hey, that's more expensive than I was hoping. They don't read the contract. And so if you can go in lower and then build up the project as you go with options and through the design consult and use these touch points to really build value. I think there's a strategy to be had there that can be very successful.

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, when I see options on an estimate, I always bring it up at a consult and say, I noticed you had an option of painting your railing. What were your thoughts towards that? And then I give my perspective and feedback and then oftentimes they do add options in because it's having this, again, it's almost something they didn't think they needed. And then it's like, I do need that. It changes their perspective on it.

Michael Murray: Yeah. And you mentioned it before, Amanda, but it's like somebody, it might be a budget concern. It's like, we might not have the cash right now to do that, but you've given them that confidence that, yeah, that would look great. And they might come back. I think you talked about, maybe it was with the cabinets or something. It's like, that might be next year's project with your company where you're sending that, you're planting that seed and you're giving them that confidence that, yes, that would be a really good value add to the way your home looks. Yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunities to do that in a tactful way without coming across as yet another salesperson or whatever.

Amanda Bryant: Yeah, personally, I don't love sales. So I kind of come at it at a different angle, I think of instilling some confidence in somebody about their decisions. Yeah. I think it comes across differently to people.

Michael Murray: Makes sense. Yeah. As we start to kind of land the plane and wrap up here, I'd love to have you maybe just talk a little bit, provide some education to our listeners about trends. Where do you see color trends or design trends from your own personal opinion? Obviously color is very personal. But you know, we mentioned back in the early 2000s, when I first started doing this stuff, the trends were beiges. I actually remember painting kitchens red. That was very popular. The deep dark reds were really popular when I was getting started and things like that. And then we went into, like you said, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, this gray trend. Where are we at now? And where might you see on the horizon just based on your best guess and expertise?

Amanda Bryant: We're at 50 shades and plus 50 shades of white. So yeah, that's where we're at right now. But I actually think color is being, yeah, I think color is coming back. Whether it was here before or not, maybe in the 70s, but I truly think it's coming back. I see it in a lot of furniture, decor, more personalized. I think design is just becoming more prevalent. I think people are actually more concerned about what their space is saying about them, how it's actually representing them. And it's not just function anymore.

So I think color is coming back. It is personal, but I love seeing the color washing or it's ceiling walls, trim doors. I actually do quite a few projects like that. It's such a unique thing, but I think white will forever be just a standard, because you can add in the color and take it away as you please as trends change. Yeah, I see more of these kind of neutral, natural tones of color coming in, but I do think there's more opportunity for more saturated colors. Yeah, it adds so much personality.

Michael Murray: Well, this has been awesome. I appreciate you taking some time out of your day. And it's always good to meet another member of the Bryant family. I know we've met, I guess, but our audience to meet you and kind of hear from your expertise. For those that are listening, if you're finding value in what we're sharing today, we'd love it if you could like and subscribe and maybe share this with one of your friends. Amanda, any funny nicknames that Jon Bryant had growing up that we can all call him when we see him at the next event?

Jon Bryant: Wonderful, wonderful to have you on. Yeah, I mean, what's, when we wrap it up, what's so fascinating, Michael, is that the like and subscribe thing. I learned recently that we've had many thousands of downloads of the podcast and only 20% of those people have actually liked and subscribed. So we know you're out there. People have watched, listened to every episode, but haven't liked and subscribed. And we're going to figure out who that is and come find you. That's the threat.

Michael Murray: That's right. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, we're going to paint their kitchen red or something.

Jon Bryant: Exactly.

Amanda Bryant: Ooh, got 'em.

Michael Murray: Awesome. Amanda, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you sharing some of your expertise. We would really encourage any comments that you guys have, please leave them specifically in the YouTube channel. And we're happy to have Amanda try to help us out answering your questions on how you might make it easier for your sales team to sell more work, make it easy on your clients to select colors. Amanda, thanks again for being here.

Amanda Bryant: Thanks for having me. Do it again sometime and talk about future trends. You know, plaid's coming back.

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