Master SALES OBJECTIONS in 2025 [Proven Tips for Painting Contractors]

Jon Bryant: Hey, welcome back to another episode of Price Sell Paint. I'm John Bryant with Paint Scout. I got Michael Murray here from Textbook Painting. Guys, today we're going to talk about getting objections and not being a wimp. And I think so much of us in the sales industry, whether it's painting or other industries, objections is just the name of the game. And I know from experience that that's hard. It's hard to get over that. And today we want to talk a little bit about how to identify them, how to address them, and then how to get over that experience of feeling anxiety about getting objections. So Michael, you up for talking about that?

Michael Murray: Yeah, I love it. I thought you invited me on just because you think I'm a wimp. I think I've been guilty of that in my sales career, so I'm excited to talk about it. I think it's a great topic.

Jon Bryant: Sweet. Well, I mean, I think the first thing here is, like I said before, we get this all the time. It's the name of the game. And I think the saying that I've heard before is that really sales doesn't start until you hear an objection. And so I think a big part of working with sales reps and even for myself is identifying what is an objection. When do we need to open our ears, get that radar going a little bit that, actually, I'm hearing something here that is trying to be a bit of a pushback and to say that this isn't the right fit. So where do you feel like you hear this the most, Michael? Being in the painting industry, where do we see this?

Michael Murray: Yeah. I mean, I see this all the time with our sales reps. This is, I think, one of the topics that we are most trying to train on with all the different sales reps that we've had at Textbook over the years. And even the ones today, it's still, I would say the topic that is the most in need of additional training, additional work. We're trying to balance this perception of I want to be helpful. I want to be liked. I want to be pleasant when I'm at the prospect's house and I'm giving my estimate. But we also have to be careful that we're not so far over on the pleasant, liked side that we're over here in this friend zone and we're not actually getting down to we're here to make a sale. This client or this prospect invited us over because they have a specific problem. And we need to figure out if we are the correct solution to solve their specific problem. And if we're not, then let's get to that point and not waste each other's time. And I think a lot of it really just comes back to a mindset of understanding what is your job and how do I balance being liked, but also needing to be a little bit direct and a little bit forceful, if you will, to get to some of these objections and not just kind of wimp out and follow up later or whatever.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, exactly. I think a lot of the times, we talk about in our sales process that you need to be okay with no. It's this weird feeling as a sales rep when you're okay with no, you actually give off the right energy, let's call it. You facilitate a better sales experience for the customer. They don't feel like you're needy and neediness pushes people away. And so what's interesting in what you're saying is that that desire to be okay with no actually has to be balanced with let's address what that no means. And I think a lot of times, the name of this podcast being to stop being a wimp is that it's so easy to hear no and just say, okay, great. Well, thank you. I'm okay with no, I'm out of here. But being okay with no, that's not what that means. I think we're going to address a couple of the areas that we see this, like specifically, like things that customers say, but overall it's to try to understand what that no really means, I think. Would you agree or disagree with that?

Michael Murray: I agree. I want to elaborate on it though because I do think that part of being a wimp is like hearing no and just accepting it. But I also think that part of being a wimp in this objection handling conversation also has to do with just avoiding objections and avoiding these actual sales conversations altogether. And I think part of this really comes back to, I believe we've talked about it before, but like identity and role. And I know you're well versed in this concept, but it's really as a sales professional. If my identity as a person is tied to my results in my role as a sales professional, meaning if I think I am just amazing when I'm out there hitting my sales goals and crushing my numbers and I'm the man, let's go look at me. The opposite of that is I am not good. I am inferior. There's something wrong with me. If somebody, if a prospect is saying no, if they're not booking, if I'm getting that type of resistance, then it's because of me. Those are two sides of the same coin.

And one of the things that we often teach our sales reps about is separating themselves that it's not about you in this situation. You are here as a representative of the company and you have a job to do, which is to help this prospect understand what is their problem? What are the possible solutions and evaluate our company as to whether or not we're the right solution. And hopefully we are. But that's a job to do in this situation. It does not define who you are as a person on a much bigger level. Because if it does, then what's going to end up happening is when it hurts my ego to hear a no, the easiest thing to do is just to wimp out and avoid it. And, you know, yeah, just like let me know once you guys have made a decision. I'll send over the email with the quote. And hopefully I'll hear from you in the next few weeks or so. And that is just completely wimpy behavior, trying to avoid having a maybe difficult conversation in person. What are your thoughts?

Jon Bryant: Yeah, for sure. I mean, when I started out, I was not good at sales, hands down. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand what I was doing. I would show up. I think I'd just talk a bunch, get a price, send it over. If I didn't hear back, I was like, well, I guess they didn't want to work with me. And if I did hear back and it was a no, I'd say, thanks for your time. And in order for me to develop that identity role is that I actually developed what I think is a second identity. And so I have an alter ego. I do. And people say when they see that alter ego, they know me and they see me selling. I'm in a different head space. And it's a head space where I don't exist as the same person. This is obviously, this might sound strange to some people, but I am playing a role. I'm an actor and that role that I'm playing, that performance is going to be so excellent. Like sometimes I walk away being like, wow, bravo, great performance, alter ego John, sales John, you did great there. But it allows me to take that emotion out of it for myself. And that other identity that I have has some very unique characteristics, which is that I am there to figure out how to get the best solution for the customer. I am there to facilitate an amazing conversation. I'm there to address issues before they even arise. I am confident, but I'm not cocky. Like these are some characteristics that I think are important that have led me to be able to be a successful participant in the sales experience.

It's this weird little role play that we're doing. It's so funny how consistent that is amongst every customer salesperson scene is very similar when you start to think of it that way. It's like this weird little role play that we have where I'm entering the home as a salesperson, they are the customer and go. And then there's this end scene. For me, that's been a helpful way of looking at it where I can actually separate these things and know that I'm just playing a role here. That role is to get a yes or no as fast as possible, but also try to challenge that. So that's my experience.

Michael Murray: Yeah, no, for sure. I think that's, I would relate to that very similarly. I'm not a natural, I'm not the most direct person naturally and things like that. And so if I'm going to be successful in sales, that is definitely something I have to find or the role I need to play as somebody that is a little bit more direct, who's going to be willing to ask some questions and have some conversations that might feel a little bit uncomfortable in the moment, but need to be had to help myself and this prospect achieve the ultimate goal of deciding, is this going to be a business opportunity or not? And let's not waste each other's time. So yeah, I think that's what we're talking about today is how do we do that well?

Jon Bryant: Absolutely. Yeah. And so I guess I'm glad you brought that up where it's like, hey, that's the start of it. But when you're in these conversations, there's a bunch of moments that happen that are as much as it is a scene that we're playing out, the same word tracks or the same outs that the customer tries to get are very similar. Like these are not, I have never heard somebody come up with anything crazy. Like what's the craziest answer you've ever gotten?

Michael Murray: I mean, I think I was just going to say, I think you and I have been doing this long enough to say that there's probably some crazy ones that we've heard. Yeah. Nothing specific comes to mind. Yeah. I mean, they generally fall into the handful of buckets of price too high, need to talk to my spouse, need to get more estimates, different things like that, that we might hear towards the end of a sales consultation.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, I think I once heard someone say their brother just got out of prison and needed a job. And it was like, okay, that fits into the bucket of, I don't want to work with you because you're probably too expensive. But hey, like, yeah.

Michael Murray: Yeah. A lot of the objections, there's different flavors, but they really are all the same thing. It's just somebody saying one thing in a different way. They really all boil down pretty simply.

Jon Bryant: Exactly. So I mean, some of the things that come to mind for me are, and I think we're going to do some other episodes specifically on some of these just to help people out, but got to get more estimates, got to talk to a significant other, someone else is going to do the work, friend, family member, somebody that isn't going to charge me any money. But that one, for some reason we've gotten a lot lately and I'm always kind of like, really? You called a professional.

Michael Murray: Why am I here?

Jon Bryant: Price is too high, we've done another episode on that. That's a really interesting one to check out as well. Not the right time. This one's kind of an interesting one, because it's like, why did you call us? Obviously there's planning for the future and all that kind of thing. And what's funny is I've used all of these myself and they've all been lies, Michael. They're all straight up lies and they're all lies. Typically that it's too expensive and I'm not comfortable telling you.

Michael Murray: For sure. Yeah, they're just, 100%. Yeah, it's, maybe even set a different way though. Like I'm not seeing the value here. Right. I think at the end of the day, right. Like as business owners, we're presented with sales pitches all the time. I mean, it's like, I just don't even want to have a cell phone anymore. I feel like I get spam calls all day long from stupid opportunities and different things and all this software emails I get that are going to solve all my problems with some new AI tool. Right. And it's, and then every once in a while you're like, let's do it. And I get on the demo and then I'm like, yeah, I know this is way more expensive than it needs to be. And I'll just say, yeah, I need some time to think about it. Right.

Jon Bryant: Exactly, exactly. This is the point I think that we'll end up hammering home here by the end of this episode is that have you, when you say that, have you had anybody respond in a way that you found has continued the conversation?

Michael Murray: Yeah. I mean, I think honestly, the most direct sales reps are actually the ones I respect the most because they actually just saved me a lot of time and angst and anxiety, right? So let's, if I'm using that example and I say, yeah, thanks for your presentation today. This has been great. You're wonderful and smell lovely too. And I need some more time to think about it. That sales professional's like, well, this sounds great. They think I'm lovely and I smell wonderful. They're there, I'm pretty close to booking this one. And yeah, I'm for sure booking this one. They go and tell their sales manager. Yeah. Right. We've heard that. And as soon as I get off the phone or off the call or get done with the meeting or whatever it is, I'm like onto the next thing. I'm not even thinking about it anymore. Like I've already generally made my decision in that moment. But then they're going to reach out at some point in the future. Most of them don't schedule next steps. And so they'll reach out and hey, just checking in. I wanted to see where you're at. Such wimp language. I hope you're doing well, just checking in. We're ready to move forward. And it's so non-direct. And what it's causing me though, is now as the prospect I've got to like, man, I probably should, I owe this person a callback. Like I want to be a decent human here, but I don't really want to get into, I don't like having confrontation if I can avoid it. So it's like, well, now we're both feeling the stress and anxiety.

Back to your question. Like, what's the best way that I've heard somebody handle that is just to say, do you really need more time in this situation? Or is there something about what we've talked about today that you don't feel comfortable moving forward with? Or even giving the options. Typically when somebody says that they need more time, what they're really doing is saying that they don't feel comfortable with the price or there's something about what I've just talked about that they don't think is the right solution. So if they're talking to me, right, they would say, okay, so Michael, which one is it? Are you not comfortable with the price or is there something about what we've just talked about that you don't feel is the right solution? And at least now we're starting to have a conversation and we can isolate that. That sales rep can now isolate my objection. And I might say, well, to be honest with you, I really don't think this is going to be a good solution for us. And now we can have a conversation as to why.

Jon Bryant: Absolutely. So my training in sales has all been about getting ahead of those questions, right? Like trying to address some of this stuff before it even comes up.

Michael Murray: Okay. Talk more about that. How might we do that?

Jon Bryant: I found it to be helpful is to bring up concerns that other customers have had and see if those are concerns that might be applicable here. I also really try to embody that idea that no is okay. Like if you're not feeling like this is the fit, honestly, let me know. I might ask you a few more questions, but at the end of the day, I want to make sure you're getting the best value for what you're looking for. When done correctly, I'm able to ask questions in advance that are going to help facilitate these conversations. And ultimately, I think help the customer get the value they're looking for. So in a world where people believe as painting contractors that we are all a commodity and that it's all the same, I like to bring up a few points that might be a little different than the next sales rep. Hey, there's a chance we're going to be more expensive. Probably a pretty good chance. Is that a barrier in your mind to moving forward? Because if it is, I get it. And maybe we can craft something that's within your budget, but I don't want to get to the end of this and find out that the budget is a restrictive element for you. Because I think that's going to be hard for both of our time. I said it in other words, for sure, but I am still addressing that point up front.

Is there anybody else that's involved in this decision? Or is this something you feel like we can decide to move forward with today or not? Like these kinds of questions actually help address what are going to be potential outs later on. It actually helps the customer too, I think. If people are asking me those questions, I know we're starting to have a real authentic conversation about whether business is possible, right? Like, hey, my price is, here's a rough price. It's going to be between four and $6,000. Are we good dance partners here? Like, I don't even know. And if they're like, well, I was thinking more like two. It's like, hey, I totally get that. There's probably a different option available for you. And I could craft something that would fit into that, but I don't know if you're going to be happy. Right. Like that's an interesting discussion.

Michael Murray: Yeah, for sure. I think what I hear you saying, what I really like is that objections shouldn't be thought of as at the end. There probably are some objections at the end of a sales consultation interaction, perhaps, but to your point is like, let's find some of those objections. I'm almost have this visual of just like, we're going down a path, right? As the sales conversation. And as we go, we need to stop and kind of check in and make sure like, does it make sense to keep continuing here? Is that a good visual? The visual that we'd like to teach our sales team here is while we're at a sales presentation is like this path is filled with stoplights. Red light, yellow light, green light. And if in the entire conversation, all you had were green light conversations, that's a problem. Because we never got to have the real conversations that are those yellow and red lights, right? We need to have the customer, feel that tension with the customer. A red conversation is one where you know, like, whoa, we went too far here. Like I actually pushed a little bit too much. And I was too direct and the customer is now headed towards the not liking me thought in their mind. Yellow is kind of in between where they're just like, that was a pretty direct question, but okay. Like I can dig it. And I can get on board a little bit with some directness here and cut to the chase kind of mentality. Or green is just these super fluff, like, my gosh, tell me more about your dog. And this is so wonderful. What's your favorite color? Okay, great. Well, I'll go ahead and give you the price and I'll email that to you later. And they come back to the office. It was like, it was such a great conversation. No sweat. It was easy and they loved me and I smelled great or whatever. And it's just like, no, like that was not a sales conversation. That was, I don't know what that was. And it's like, go back and have some real conversations as to why would this person not go with us? And if we don't know that at the end of the appointment as to what is the reason if they do not move forward, what's the real reason? And I think too often our sales reps come back and they're like, yeah, it went great. I'm going to call them next week. Sounds like they're going to book with us. I'm like, okay, great. If they don't book, why? I don't really know. Probably just because of price, I guess. Well, it's like, no, it's not really because of price, even if that's what most people say. And it's like, did we talk about price? Did we have a conversation about their budget? Is this within their budget? Is that less than they were expecting? Have they, is there other people that they need to talk to? Does it fit their timeline and their schedule? What is it? And it's like, well, I didn't really talk about those things. Well, now they're going to have those conversations internally, right, with their significant other or just kind of in their own head. And you're not going to get to be any part of that, which is the major problem.

Jon Bryant: For sure. So say you're going through your in-home visit with somebody and you say, do you want to progress? And they say, well, I got to talk to a significant other, I got to get more estimates. Where does your brain go immediately on that?

Michael Murray: Well, I mean, the easy thing is like, damn it. I should, there's something I didn't do very well leading up to this point. I could have avoided this almost trap door that the customer now has me standing over top of. Because to your, I think you said this earlier that it's just like, that's an out, that is an easy out for the client of like end of conversation. There's really not much more to talk about here. You can leave now. I have everything I want. Because you just gave me my quote. So that's the first thing. I think the second, so then it gets to like, okay, well we ended up where we didn't want to end up. So how do we handle that going forward from here? A couple of, this is bad. Damn it, here again, because it's very common. I would say it's probably the most common end of an appointment.

Jon Bryant: So you're standing on the trap door. Now you're like, okay. This is bad. Yeah. Yeah. Which one of those, the talk to a significant other or the get more estimates?

Michael Murray: I guess I'm kind of lumping them together. I do think they're somewhat similar. Yeah, I don't know. I guess probably get more estimates is more common. But I feel like, I'm guessing. I mean, they're both pretty darn common. So let's just go to the how would I handle or how would I teach somebody to handle? Because I don't always do this as well as I should, going back to the conversation we had a few minutes ago. I would say if somebody says I need to get more estimates, the first thing a good sales rep should ask is something on the lines of, first of all, like, I completely get it. It makes a lot of sense to make sure you're making a really good decision for what's best for your needs, your budget and things like that. And then I would ask like, what specifically from what I've shown you today does not meet your needs? What are you hoping to find as a better solution with other quotes? And just shut up and listen.

And I think a lot of times, yeah, I think a lot of times they're going to say, well, I got to keep you honest, check your price, and things like that. And then we can, that's just start to isolate. It kind of goes back to what I was talking about a little while ago. It's like, okay, great. So just to be clear, it's, I just want to make sure I'm understanding, is that everything we talked about, you really like the schedule we provide, the products we're using, you're very comfortable with us as a company. Am I correct in understanding that? Right now it really just comes down to is the price? Is this price more than what you were comfortable spending, you had budgeted for? Talk a little bit about that. And now we can at least start to isolate that objection. We can have that conversation and the customer would say, well, yeah, to be honest, I wasn't expecting this to cost this much money, which is why I'm probably going to hopefully get another quote or whatever. And it's like, okay, great. Well, what were you expecting?

And now we can get back to, when you mentioned this before, but maybe we can craft a different quote. Okay, great. My quote's $6,000, you were expecting it to be closer to three. Like, all right, I don't, there's no way that I can give you the exact project that I just quoted for six at three without sacrificing a lot. I think you, Mr. Customer, Mrs. Customer, you wouldn't want me to try to get our guys to paint twice as fast to make that work. That would be bad. But what we might be able to do is talk about some of the scope of work here. I know originally you'd said you wanted to get all the rooms painted. But as we walked around, we saw that some of these rooms weren't really all that in need. And you mentioned maybe that guest bedroom hardly ever gets used. Would it be OK if I just spent a few minutes here and changed a few things on the quote to see if I can't get you closer to that price that you just talked about?

Jon Bryant: Exactly. Yeah, I call it, we can always price engineer something for you. Let's not let price be the barrier to having a conversation about the job. I'm always trying to jump out ahead of these things. A lot of my sales process and what I train is getting ahead of this stuff. So I almost make assumptions. I like to bring it up before I even say, do you want to move forward? I've already said things like, I'm going to assume because I've purchased things before too, that we're probably getting a couple estimates here. Is that true? And the customer is going to say, yeah, yeah, actually we are. Say, hey, that's great. Because I don't think you should proceed with this job without doing that. Is there any differences that you're hoping? Is there anything that you're hoping to stand out between the companies you're getting estimates from? And now we're having a conversation about value. And so I love to do that. When I'm price banding, I like to say, is that within the range that you'd consider working with us at? And then if they say, yeah, by this point, I've already probably got my price through Paint Scout. I roughly know what I'm talking about. I say, well, your price is actually more or less here. Are you comfortable with moving forward today? And then I just stop. And then those resistance points, hopefully I've tackled a bunch of them previously and they might say, no, I have to talk to this. And that's the one I get the most. In which case then I'm setting a follow-up time.

And I'm asking them if there's any other concerns they have. Because usually when I hear that, the way I was trained was to say, hey, totally understand that that's valid. Usually when I hear that though, there's some issue to do with the price. Is that the case here? And hopefully the rest of the conversation I've had previously allows us to feel like we can have that conversation to say, no, it's not actually about price. We just, we always do this. It's the process we do in our home. I don't feel comfortable moving forward without that. I say, hey, that's great. Love to hear that. I've got a space at two o'clock on Tuesday next week. Can we talk then? And so I'm layering that, but I understand these resistance points are pretty much predictable.

Michael Murray: I think I love what you just described and I think there's a lot of good word tracks there. I think the other, another one that I've liked to use in the past for the talk with my spouse is to just ask the person I'm sitting with what type of questions or concerns do you think your spouse is going to have when you guys sit down and talk about this? And that's when then they kind of throw their spouse under the bus. Right. And it's just like, well, they're probably going to think this is too expensive. Or whatever. And sometimes what I'll try to do, depending on how the conversation's gone and the project and all the things is try to schedule time. I'd love to come back and just have a conversation with both of you. And to say that it's like, and it's true that one of the most difficult things for you as spouse number one in this conversation is your spouse number two is going to have a lot of questions that you might not be able to answer because maybe I didn't explain it very well or you just forget by the time you guys have that conversation. I would love to come over, 15 minutes. I don't want to waste too much of your guys' time. I'm going to be in the neighborhood in a few days here on Saturday morning, is there any chance you guys might both be home? Love to grab some, I can even stop by with some coffee. Let's go over this quote together and see what kind of questions that other spouse might have.

Jon Bryant: What's interesting about this thing, about these decisions, is that one person generally has the power. I found, and sometimes it's a deflection. Like sometimes that statement's a deflection to say, actually I have the power, but I don't want to make the, I don't want to tell you no right now. And the other one is that I don't have the power and I legitimately I'm just collecting for the person who does. And so I'm always trying to identify that a little bit.

Michael Murray: I think it's usually the first. I think like, again, I agree that there's both, but I think in most, let's just imagine, right, it's a married husband and wife in this situation, right, that we're just describing. And it doesn't, let's just say you're meeting with the wife, right? It's like, if the husband is the one who's ultimately going to be making this decision and they want all the information, it's like, most people are smart enough to know that then that's probably the person who should be meeting with the potential contractors, asking them the questions and it's like that it's their project, they're owning it. They're more excited about it or whatever. So you're right. I think there are times where just based on busyness and otherwise that the person you're meeting with really doesn't actually have the ability to make those decisions. But I think more what it is, is the person you're meeting with has the power and they're using the I need to talk to my significant other as a scapegoat for, I don't want to have a conflict and tell you no, and I don't like you because I don't trust you. You look weird, you smell funny, and I want you to get the hell out of my house or whatever. And it's just like, we live in a polite society, if you will. And it's like, people don't want to say that to each other, at least unless it's over the internet, but that's maybe a whole different topic, at least not in person.

And that's part of it too, right? It's like people would much rather just be able to send you a text message later on and say, thanks so much for coming over. You were wonderful and smelled lovely too, but we decided to go with somebody else because they know then that we're not going to actually be able to have any more of a conversation and there's no conflict involved. And that's what the prospect is hoping for. That is their best case scenario is that when we do have conflict, the real conversations of are we going to work together, they're all happening not in person. And as a sales rep, our goals should be the exact opposite.

Jon Bryant: Absolutely. Yeah. So to facilitate an experience where there's comfort in being able to discuss the issues is the way I've always seen it. So yeah, I mean that situation of significant other, the one area I do see it a lot. And so in the home, in home experience, I always find it to be a diversion tactic, typically 95% of the time. And so to your point about saying, hey, what kind of questions are you going to get asked, opens up the conversation again. And in a lot of ways, when we're dealing with objections, it's all about opening the conversation again. I think it's important, but the area where I haven't figured it out has been commercial. And commercial, typically you're meeting with somebody who is not the decision maker. In fact, it might be a group of decision makers. They're collecting information for that group. I've always struggled to get through that. It's hard to have a legitimate conversation. Any thoughts there?

Michael Murray: Yeah, I mean, so to be clear, I've talked about it on the podcast, we don't do a ton of commercial work. So I don't want to pretend to be the expert that I'm not when it comes to this situation. But I do think that at the end of the day, B2B, B2C, it's really P2P, it's person to person. We're having conversations with people. And yes, there are nuances to how decisions are made. I think whether it's a married household and we've got two decision makers or it's a large commercial or HOA or something like that where we've got a board involved in things. I think one of the things that I'm always trying to do if I can't get all the decision makers to be part of the conversation, which is going to be very difficult in this commercial setting, is I need to make sure that this person's going to at least be my advocate. That I want to walk away with the understanding that like, am I your choice? Like I realize that you can't make the ultimate choice individually, but if you could, would we be working together? And if the answer is, well, I'm not so sure I need to get more quotes or right. We're back into that list. Then it's like, great, let's talk about that. And I'm just going to really focus in on that one person. And have I shown them everything that they need to know that we are the right fit, hoping that they're going to then go and have the conversation with the group advocating on my behalf that this is the one, they seem the most professional. Their quote was really clear. They gave us a really good price and I love how they answered all my questions or whatever it might've been. That's my goal in that type of situation.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, I agree with that. I think we've even gone one step further in our thinking of the sales process a little bit, especially when it's commercial or that person to person sale. And we do this for residential as well, but commercial is a little bit more, we want to include some of those objections on our proposal. And so in Paint Scout, we've got the Paint Scout presentations. Those get delivered to the customer and there's a chance to reiterate some of those value points that might be sticking points for a commercial contractor. So how do we handle these types of things? Why might it be a little more expensive? Why is it worth considering that?

Michael Murray: One more quick question for you before we wrap this up is, we're talking right now about multiple decision makers. I think we've heard a lot of other companies and other industries will do what they, basically it's like a one leg or a two leg appointment is what I've heard this called where they won't go on estimates or quotes if only one, let's go back to this residential, if only one spouse in this married household is going to be able to be there for the visit. Where do you come out? Where does your company come out on that? Do you even talk about it? Is it a hard and fast rule? Like only if both people can be there. Where are you guys on that spectrum?

Jon Bryant: Yeah, I mean, I've heard of this before and I don't subscribe to it. I feel like part of the root of it is that it can be allowing you to be more pushy. And we don't want to be pushy. It's like, I need a decision now that you guys are both here. I'm not going to leave until I get a decision. Maybe I'm misinterpreting that Michael, like maybe you've heard of it different ways, but in a lot of ways I've heard that people say, I can't get a decision when it's one person. So I got to have both and then I can get a decision.

And I believe that I believe sales works differently than that. I believe that this is a, like you said, person to person really resonates with me, human to human. Like if you do the process correctly, if you help address the concerns that might already be there, that we're so uncomfortable to address. Like price, timeline, going with other contractors, whether no, just these are things that people might say no. You can facilitate a good enough sales experience where it doesn't matter if there's two people there. And like we'd already talked about, usually the person you're talking to 95% of the time has the power, they're just deferring. I don't know. I've never subscribed to that also because I feel like it's always going to be after hours and we hate doing estimates after like evenings and weekends. So anyway, yeah.

Michael Murray: Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, obviously, I mean, you and I are friends. We've talked about this for a long time. I think we run our businesses pretty similarly, probably even before we were friends, but certainly more similarly as we talk more and share best practices and things like that. But I do think that as I'm having this conversation, it's like, okay, well, if this is one of the most common objections that we get, maybe there's an opportunity as part of our intake call if you will, right? Somebody calls us and they're scheduling this appointment. It's just asking, is there going to be anyone else involved in the decision? And what I don't want to ask is, is your husband going to be home? Because man alive, you already lost the sale. So don't do that. But asking like, is there anyone else that's going to be involved in the decision making process? And if the person says, well, yeah, my spouse, whatever. Would you like to schedule a time when you can both be available? That might be a pretty non-confrontational, not too forceful way of saying, yeah, actually, I guess that might make the most sense on their end, right? Or they might say like, no, they don't really care. This is my project. And now I've got notes for the sales rep that says, well, when we asked them this question, they said, spouse doesn't care. They don't need to be there. And so then I'm at the quote and the customer, this first spouse is like, yeah, I need to talk to my spouse. It's like, well, when we talked to you about this on the phone scheduling the appointment, you said they didn't really care. So is there something else going on? I don't know. I'm just thinking, we don't do that, but I'm thinking about it as we talk through this conversation.

Jon Bryant: I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense. I like the word would too. Would it make sense? Like those are just such a powerful statement because it gives the control to the person, not pushy. And yeah, it's getting in front of that stuff. Man, that's a great idea. That's funny that we both learn things while we do the podcast. There you go. I'm here for it.

Michael Murray: Yeah, I think there's so many different ways to appreciate your help. So many different ways to improve. That's why this is so much fun. There's always opportunities to do this better, but good stuff.

Jon Bryant: Well, let's wrap it up guys. Feel free to like and subscribe. We'd love it to keep the conversation going and keep the content coming. So if you got anything out of this, leave us a question or comment. We also love to hear that as well. So this is John signing off. Michael, thank you very much. It's been a great conversation and we'll talk to you all soon. Thank you very much.

Michael Murray: Take care.

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