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Jon Bryant: I know, I feel like I didn't have to tell you. We're good. Hey, what's up everyone? Welcome back to the Price Sell Paint podcast. I'm Jon Bryant. Michael Murray is not here today. So, you know, try to bear with me as we get to chat with Maggie Kuyper. I'm excited. Maggie, thanks so much for joining us here on the podcast.

Maggie Kuyper: I'm so excited to be here and hang out with you, Jon Bryant.

Jon Bryant: Great, 45 minutes of excellent quality time together, as I always like to say. So, absolutely not, no. 100% not, no. I don't even know what it is. What is your quality time, what is your love language?

Maggie Kuyper: Is that your love language, quality time?

Maggie Kuyper: Okay.

Maggie Kuyper: I like words of affirmation. Yeah.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, yeah, I'm a big, you know I think I've like kind of equally balanced on all four. Those are four or five. It's like there's five. Okay for one of those. Exactly for those who don't know the love languages they are words of affirmation, quality time, gifts, touch. This is the one I don't know. What is it?

Maggie Kuyper: There's five, so maybe this is your studying for the weekend.

Maggie Kuyper: Mm-hmm.

Maggie Kuyper: Acts of service.

Jon Bryant: Acts of service. Nice. I like the little bubble there. I'll do that too. Yeah. If you do too, check this out. Boom. Yeah. We can have a lot of fun here with the hand motions. Anyways, for those listening, Maggie, you want to give maybe a three minute overview of what you do at Harpeth Painting, how you got here. Cool. Let's do it.

Maggie Kuyper: I think I did it because I went like this, yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Firework.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: We got 45 minutes. So minus three. All right. Perfect. So my husband, Matt and I own Harpeth Painting. We are located in Nashville, Tennessee, which is a pretty awesome place to be right now. It is a thriving city with lots of fun stuff. And we are in year seven of the company. Matt comes with an extensive background in commercial construction since about 2006. He's been in the commercial world here in Nashville. And seven years ago, we decided to break out on our own. We started the company pretty small. He was running it on the side while he was still working for a general contractor. And about year and a half into it, it was just taking off so much and we had enough cash saved away that we took it on full time. And a week after that, I had our third child. So great timing. Yeah. And then about a year after he was born, I stepped in and helped him full time. And about two years ago, took over as CEO of the company. And here we are.

Jon Bryant: Great timing. Well done. Yeah. Here we are. I mean, you guys are, you guys are a force to be reckoned with in Nashville from what I understand. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm super fascinated to talk to you about, I mean, the landscape of commercial painting for sure, but also just women in paint. I think you have a really unique perspective of being part of the PCA. Your role as a CEO of a painting company, you sell a lot of painting as well. And I want to kind of figure out what's in there, get some of that information for everybody listening.

Maggie Kuyper: I hope so. I hope we make a lot of friends along the way.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: You have such super insiders, all these numbers that you hold about our company.

Jon Bryant: Exactly, yes. So I mean, for those listening, I mean, Maggie is this year the highest selling woman on the system amongst the other things you do, which I think is just like what mother of four, three, mother of three, CEO of a, what's that?

Maggie Kuyper: Three. Unless you include...

Maggie Kuyper: Unless you're including Matt.

Jon Bryant: Some other four, yeah, the whole CEO role and you managed to do this. So, I mean, kind of slacking a little bit and we'll probably dig into that or even some room to improve, but overall pretty impressive. So let's start with this question. I mean, women in paint, you've been part of the PCA involved with that. I mean, what do you see out there? I mean, is there, this is a ridiculous question, but is there room for more women in this industry?

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: No, that's a cool question. There is, I mean, there's room for, there's room for new perspectives and new voices and new flavors. And there's room for professionalism. And I believe a lot of that is innately tied to women. Not that it can't be men, of course. My husband is very good at organization and design and things like that. But all things considered, I think what I've noticed and what I hear from other women in the industry is, I want to use the word, like it's refreshing for people. When I go out to a job site, whether it's residential or commercial, that's how I feel when most people see a female. It's refreshing. We have other females that work in our company and it's funny because I think the builders, you know, especially new construction, it's just so gruff and tough. And then, you know, that trickles into even homeowners, you know, they're used to construction being a man's world and, you know, a world of unclean humans and bald tires, like it's just not a refined industry across the board. There are areas, but so I think when a female comes on, you know, there's just an air about it that kind of almost brings everything down and it makes it less gruff and tough and construction-y.

Jon Bryant: Right. And there's a benefit to that, right? Like, what kind of benefits do you experience, you think, when you have that touch point?

Maggie Kuyper: That's the word, less construction.

Maggie Kuyper: I think, like I said before, I think everyone just, I perceive the world when a woman is involved in construction, in paint, to just, the world feels a little bit calmer. Most people are not going to speak aggressively or over assertively to a female. Like I'm not going to have a builder bark at me to say like, why don't I have eight more painters on this job? It's going to just naturally be said differently. At one point in time, everyone had a mom. Not everyone has a great relationship with their mom, but there's a nurturing and there's a comfort to women that come, I think. And everyone just seems to be calmer. Yeah.

Jon Bryant: Mm.

Jon Bryant: For sure. I couldn't agree with you more. The reason I said initially it was like, this is a ridiculous question. The reason I think it's ridiculous is because it's just such an obvious answer. It's like the solution here is a more balanced industry. And I think that lends itself better to professionalism in the end. You have better balanced companies. Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what I was kind of saying before is, you know, men and women, our brains are neurologically wired differently. And I mean, my background is, I didn't mention this before, is education. I have actually my master's in educational psychology. And so like the brain and humans and how we think, act and engage is something that was basically my first career. And so, I mean, there's...

Jon Bryant: Mm.

Jon Bryant: No way.

Jon Bryant: When I meet people like you, I always know you know what I'm thinking. So I'm just always worried. I'm like, I can't hide. I can't hide from you, Maggie. That's true. That's true. Okay, cool.

Maggie Kuyper: Yes.

Maggie Kuyper: You heard what I'm doing before. I don't have time to think about what you're thinking about.

Maggie Kuyper: But, you know, I was in education and I worked at an all-girls school. And it was very, and none of this is because, you know, I grew up with like a 70s feminist family at all. Like this is all just like how life aligned. And I think that's important to note that this is how things fell, not how it was designed. Because I think that speaks volumes to the point we're trying to make. So I taught in an all girls school and we had all these studies and research and all these things come out about the benefits of girls at that age being together, like in a full female environment. And then same thing with guys, because we had a boys school across the street. And what are the benefits as their brains are still developing to have them separated because the boys' frontal lobe develops three years later than the females. Like it's just a neurological piece. So all that to say, you know, we are wired differently and, you know, the whole adage that like women have tabs open and men have like browsers minimized, right? So like women, all these things going on and there's just such a benefit to all industries, but especially ours that is male dominated to bring in an outside perspective and for people to challenge the way that things have always been done. And I think it's a women's voice that's doing that right now.

Jon Bryant: Right?

Jon Bryant: For sure.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, no, it's very, very interesting. And I totally resonate with those points. So let me ask you this. I mean, you get a chance to sell painting projects to, is it mostly GCs, builders? Where do you sell most of your work?

Maggie Kuyper: I, all, yep. I've, yep. I still have some residential repaint clients, designers, builders, commercial. Yeah. All over the place.

Jon Bryant: Okay.

Jon Bryant: Gotcha. And do you feel like, and the reason I'm going to preface this question just by kind of referencing a conversation I've had with Michael Murray before, which is that Michael prefers to, not maybe prefer, but he feels as though women can have a better connection at the point of sale with a lot of these types of projects. And that lends itself to a better sales process and can just be really, like you said before, calm everything down and kind of have a real conversation because of what people are used to, which is like the gruff and tough you call the company. Someone shows up with those bald tires and dressed covered in paint and, you know, with a cigarette. Exactly, right? So like they're already prepping for that. Would you say that like, do you feel any advantage in this kind of space?

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, or the UCL's car guy shows up.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to it, because I'm trying to place myself, you know, in the sales process. I think I've been doing it long enough that I don't often think about it, but there is. Yeah, there's definitely when I show up, our company is automatically set apart because I'm different.

Jon Bryant: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Now that can go two ways, right? Like I could be different and then it could actually disrupt the sales process. We've had that. I mean, I'm not going to act like it's the silver or magic bullet to have a female salesperson. Because I believe I've lost jobs because I was a female and it just was someone that had, you know, issues. Yeah. Yeah. But I think...

Jon Bryant: Yeah, yeah, totally. I can totally see that. That probably goes both ways too, right? It's not a gender related thing, but yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: I think for the most part, what it does is it, as I said, it sets us apart. And then what we do from there, I think is, you know, androgynous. Like it has nothing to do with, you know, I think at first it's like, wow, there's a female that's different. I haven't seen that. I thought painters were all men. I thought construction was all men. Well, this is fun. And then if I nail the sales process, you know, I think it definitely, or if I don't nail the sales process, me being different is actually going to be the downfall.

Jon Bryant: Sure.

Jon Bryant: I see. So maybe there's actually opportunities, situations we have to work harder to kind of bring in that trust.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think you have to, I think there has to be, you have to be very polished in the sales process. If I was like mumbling and confused and not confident and maybe not knowledgeable on the process and the products, then all I'm going to do is more than likely fulfill some hidden stereotype that already existed about either women or women in construction or, you know, anything like that. And so, I mean, and that's neither good nor bad. I think it's just the truth. Like when you're in a male dominated industry and you are different, people pay attention. And so you got to be, you got to be on, you got to do it well.

Jon Bryant: Right. So maybe they almost pay more attention in a way because of that noticeable difference. Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting because we're, I mean, here at PaintScout, we get to see kind of this breakdown of number of reps that are male versus female. And there's definitely a trend to more female for sure. And I think there's some benefit. So it's kind of, it's interesting to play it out and kind of try to figure out why. And what's really going to take this industry and make it different is when it's not 90% male, I think. And people feel more comfortable with that. So you guys right now, before the call you kind of mentioned, what's the breakdown of your workforce? Like in terms of male, female, is it?

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Maggie Kuyper: So we have 11, soon to be 12 in our office. And there are one, two, four females. And then our field, we are predominantly a subcontractor model, which is for another day. But, so I don't exactly know at every given moment, but I know that every single one of our sub crews has at least one female. Most of them have two or three. So we do also have crews in the field that are all females. Yeah.

Jon Bryant: Yeah.

Jon Bryant: Gotcha. Okay.

Jon Bryant: And so with that, like, in your office, you have other sales reps, I guess too. Is that right? Yep. And for those listening, I mean, I know you mentioned you haven't had the chance to hire a female sales rep yet, but what are some of the things maybe that people should be doing just to consider if they wanted to bring someone on how to make their company feel more comfortable or approachable or just allow for that situation to happen.

Maggie Kuyper: I think it's kind of what I said before, and honestly, this is the whole impetus behind the Women in Paint within PCA, which is just giving women, whether it's your employee or industry-wide, the opportunity to learn the nuances of the industry. I would argue a lot of women didn't grow up in the trades. There are some that did, like I'm not generalizing, but most of the women I meet, this is something that they came into, fell into, were courted into, whatever the situation is. And so giving them an opportunity to elevate them with education. I mean, kind of going back to what I said about the confidence going in and I see like, the, is Lee's AI Painting. They have a female sales girl who absolutely crushes it and she is as confident as it can get and she just like is driven and she's into sales and she's strategic and she's building out a sales process and she is just like a force to be reckoned with in the most adorable way. She's just like this adorable little peanut. And so, you know, it's the perfect thing, right? They gave her the opportunity to learn everything she needs to learn about selling and product so that she's set up for success. You know, if I hire a salesperson and don't give them those tools, they're going to fail. But I believe, especially if I hire a female salesperson and be like, hey, good luck going and talking to that GC or good luck going and talking to that homeowner. Hope you figure out what paint is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, good luck and sell the job at the right amount and don't make us look bad. Yeah, the coaching sounds great over there, Harpeth. Well done. Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Thanks. We're, we're big culture hires. And so, you know, I think that's a huge piece to, again, regardless of gender, but, you know, I would love to hire a female salesperson. I believe, especially on the commercial side, if I could have a real killer female estimator, because it is beneficial for commercial companies to hire women-owned businesses. I mean, it has its advantages for a million different reasons. But I just haven't found one. And I'm not going to just hire someone because they're a female and sell. Like, we are culture people. And so I think that also gives kind of a framework for people to be confident and to sell well, is because they believe in what they're selling and who they're selling it for.

Jon Bryant: Sure. Yeah, I think it's an important distinction of like, I mean, in this conversation, the gender is not the important part. The important part is the culture fit, like you said. But there are like, there's nuances to I think this business in this industry, which we need to push the boundary of like, getting people involved. And so like, I think about our painting company, and we now have, so we're, it's an all employee company and we now have 28 women on staff and the impact of that. So that's been a mission of ours to try to balance that out for the last five years. And the actual feeling around our company is so different than it used to be. Like we, everything you're saying about like, gruff and tough. It's like, we are not like, we're the most approachable, nice community that respects each other because we've had to and put those rules in place or else it just wasn't going to work. And unfortunately, I think for a lot of women, maybe you'd comment on this, but I think it's intimidating to think about what kind of treatment you might get at companies and like how uncomfortable that might be given the reputation of the trade. And so, I kind of wanted, I wanted to pick your brain a little bit about how to make, and maybe this is a hard one for us to diagnose, but to make it more comfortable and approachable. Like if you're trying to recruit, you know, to be more equal in your team, how do you, how do you do that? Like, how do you present yourself well and what type of standards do you need? Do you have any thoughts around that?

Maggie Kuyper: Man, this is a big question, Jon Bryant.

Jon Bryant: I'm sorry, I'm trying to wrestle with this all the time.

Maggie Kuyper: I mean, it's okay. I don't believe in this theory at its core, but I do think it has its place. But do you remember Maslow's hierarchy? Did you ever learn that? Yeah, you have like your food, shelter, clothing.

Jon Bryant: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: And like, as long as that is taken care of, then you can go to the next level, which is like physical safety. Then you go to the next level and you work your way up to like being self-actualized. So there's a lot of flaws in that argument, but I do think there's something to be said to the bottom tier of anything. And so if you break it down to its simplest level, do you know what argument I hear? You're not going to, you're going to be so confused why I went this angle, but I promise I'm getting there. The number one thing that I see and hear from women is what do I wear?

Jon Bryant: Hmm, interesting.

Maggie Kuyper: There's no good painter whites for women. So if you want to dress like a painter, good luck. What do most women wear these days? Leggings. Okay. Is that appropriate to wear in a homeowner's house? Do people feel comfortable wearing leggings in front of other people's husbands? These are genuinely conversations that are repeatedly had on the Women in Paint Facebook page, among the table when we all get together. And it's like, how are we going to expect this industry to feel like a place that women are welcome when their bottom tier question is like, geez, what am I going to wear to work today?

Jon Bryant: That's right. So the bottom, the actual bottom of the hierarchy isn't even currently met. Wow. That's yeah. Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, like literally. So it sounds silly, but you know, or even you can take it up a level like, can I physically carry a 40 foot ladder?

Jon Bryant: Right.

Maggie Kuyper: I can't. Even when I was like the most badass CrossFitter ever, which is not the case currently. I don't know that I could have carried, lifted and like, you know, so there's just, there's certain parts of our industry that are just innately intimidating. And there are things that to me are like, you know, that base pyramid of, I mean, I remember my first expo, PCA expo. It was the Savannah one. It was right when I had taken on a role in helping Matt with the company. And it was both of our first expo and I like can't tell you. Yeah, had a baby. I can't tell you how many people I was like, what do I wear?

Jon Bryant: You had a baby.

Maggie Kuyper: Like, because I'm not a, I'm not like a khakis and polo type person. And so that felt like the only option other than painter clothes and I'm not a painter. And so even as a professional in the industry, I was like, I don't want to overdress and like look kind of douchey and like, I'm better than everyone, but I don't want to underdress like, you know, so even me who really typically doesn't care about what people think was like, this is new.

Jon Bryant: Yeah.

Jon Bryant: So what did you do?

Maggie Kuyper: I put on clothes and I just wore them and everything was fine.

Jon Bryant: Okay, good. So when you're behind the scenes and having these discussions with like the manufacturers and other people in the industry, what's the answer that's given? Is there any answer here? Hmm.

Maggie Kuyper: No, I mean, I think people are listening, you know, especially within PCA, a lot of our industry partners who are, you know, the Sherwin, Behr, Benjamin Moore, PPGs, you know, of the world. And that's just, you know, paint manufacturers. There's a litany of other people who are listening and want to support women in the industry. And I know from conversations with people at these places, it's not because they see a marketing opportunity. And it's not because they see a tax break because they're giving to an underprivileged proportion of the industry. It's exactly, Jon Bryant, what you've been saying this whole time is they see that it's a need, that this industry will benefit from having women in it and having the voice of women in the industry. And so I think everyone's just like grappling their brains around like, where do we start? Do we start with painter whites or do we start with like empowering them? What do we do?

Jon Bryant: Based on your very insightful Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I think it might be the painter whites and someone should try that like or something, right? I mean, you make such a good point. Like I didn't thought of it that way because like I'm not thinking that way. And that's why this is like so insightful for me where I'm like, I'm not thinking about what to wear. Like that's not the first question I asked myself. I got my browser open, not those tabs. And I'm like, I'm just going to get to work today. Whatever happens in between there is fine. So, I mean, I think for people that are listening, like just understand that there is a different thought process around that hierarchy of needs and how that impacts a workplace is super empowering. Like it's very impactful.

Maggie Kuyper: Get us some pants.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, well, and you can take any of it. I mean, this is true for any human. In the end, we're all humans. And I've never been one to sit here and be like, you know, anyone's better than anyone. I believe at my core that we were created differently and that that is beautiful when it all works together. And so I think it's important to, you know, again, not to hone in on this hierarchy, but again, it doesn't have to be Maslow, but like, okay, so we figured out what to wear. But then the next thing that I hear a lot from women, Jon Bryant, is like that not all women feel comfortable in homes. There are dumb people in this world. There are dumb men who say things that they shouldn't, or there are women who say things that they shouldn't. And that's another thing that I hear time and time again is, you know, how do we feel? And so if the, and we all know this because we've, through the whole Me Too movement, all these things, you learn that like one bad situation can cripple a woman's confidence, right? Like one, but that's true of any human, right? Like if one awful thing happens to my husband, he's going to be impacted. But if one jerk homeowner makes a comment about, wow, a female on a job site, I guess this is going to take twice as long or the opposite, something inappropriate like, I like when you cut into those walls over there. Whatever it is, I don't know. I'm trying to keep it real. But you know, that will, you will now carry that fear into your next few jobs. And most humans will internalize it. What did I do wrong? What can I do differently? Instead of just saying, no, that guy was a turd. And so it's, so again, if we get past the painter's whites, then we have to get to, you know, just our tabs are open.

Jon Bryant: Yeah.

Jon Bryant: So is there a way to help with that? Like, I mean, is this like about coaching about other stuff or is it legitimately like a safety concern? Like...

Maggie Kuyper: I think women just want to be affirmed that it does happen. I think anytime I've said that's hard and that's really crummy that that happened to you, but then also like, let's pull out of the loop. Has it happened again? Cool. All right, let's keep going and hope it doesn't. Was it, we use this a lot in our family and our company. Was it an instance or a pattern? Right? So was this an instance where it was just a crummy situation and someone said something they shouldn't, or is this a pattern where like every other job you go to, we're now seeing? So like, I think if it is an instance, you have to just comfort and acknowledge that it happened and acknowledge that it's crappy and kind of, you know, pull out of it. But then if it's a pattern, I don't know, is it something that needs to be coached on? Is it a part of your marketing and sales process that you're getting the wrong clientele to have a female salesperson or a female painter? Like, I don't know. But that's, I mean, that's how we make most decisions. Is this a pattern or is this an instance?

Jon Bryant: Right.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, that's really, I mean, I actually wrote that down. So thank you for that. I came here to learn today. Thanks. Don't bill me for that. Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, you're welcome. It's a parenting gem. No, it's a parenting gem. I mean, side, like every time I get frustrated with my kid, I'll be like, wait, that is like literally the first time she's ever done that. Okay, I'm not going to, I'm going to move on.

Jon Bryant: Right, right, right. Yeah, that's, I mean, I'm going to use that. So thank you. Yeah. So, I mean, I think like the things that I'm hoping people can take away from this or that, like, you know, there's an opportunity here for involvement for women in the trade. I think, I mean, I like what like, I think Nick, Nick Slavik said this too. It's just like, look, you know, you're hard up for labor while you're overlooking 50% of the population. And so, but a big part of that is helping people understand what it means to make that happen. So it's a great like thing in theory, like we need more women in this industry, but just what you said previously about like clothing choices, the feeling of being on site are really important for businesses to understand in order to make their workplace approachable and available. And honestly just to make the industry better. It's a big question that actually, I believe leads us to that. So maybe let's shift gears a little bit, Maggie, unless you have anything else to say on that. So I'm really curious. I know we've gotten to know each other kind of over the years just from you guys transitioning softwares and figuring out the commercial space. Man, love that. Thank you so much. It's been really fun.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, we love you guys. You guys are awesome.

Jon Bryant: To serve the community and you guys are a huge part of it with the amount that you guys process. And I think, I wanted to kind of finish the conversation with, you know, how did you guys in seven years get to where you are? Because it's impressive. And I'm wondering if there's anything we can take out of that, especially in the commercial space, right? Like commercial's not talked about that much. It's kind of a hidden area in a lot of ways. So as the CEO of a thriving seven year business, what do you sit back today and think, wow, that's the really important part of what we do today.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Well, today, Jon Bryant, today my brain is filled with, can we keep doing this? Like, is this a sustainable size? There's a lot of people. That's where I am today. So I would just like to be clear that, you know, everyone always thinks the grass is greener as you grow, but, you know, still, there's still moments. No, we're having a great year and we're going to have, we have a great backlog, which I know now thanks to PaintScout. And so I joke when I say that, but I say that because today is one of those days where just as an entrepreneur, I'm just like, wow, man, like we've got a great thing going. Can we keep doing this every year? So yeah, our growth is definitely hard to explain. I mean, there's a favor involved, but I think just we leaned into community and there is a huge differentiator in our company in that, and we do a horrible job of tracking this on PaintScout, but I would venture to say in the course of our company, probably 80% of our business has been through referral, repeat customer and relationships that we have. And so Matt and I love. We have so many little pockets of community that we've had, you know, over the years and it's ebbed and flowed and some have changed and some have stayed the same. And we just, we are so grateful, but also attribute, you know, our success to that. And so we are in the community and I'm not saying that, you know, that's a marketing plan by any means, but, you know, when we make a point to be good people and to be involved in our community in a lot of different ways and just stay connected and not in our own little bubble, it's just brought so many opportunities. And so that's kind of the angle that we've launched as a company. Part of our employment requirement is that you're part of a networking group, whether that's a BNI group or an AGC, ABC, or any other type of, you know, and so we just believe in that power of networking. But networking in a genuine way. I'm not just going to every event trying to build relationships for the sales. I'm all in in our school community, come to find out there's great relationships there that have led to really cool projects. But that's not why I sent my kids to school there.

Jon Bryant: Yeah.

Jon Bryant: Right?

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah, or like, we procreated for our business. You are a pawn. So even this morning, we changed churches a few years ago and like we've just started really getting involved in our new church and guess where we're painting right now. I just went by this morning. We're doing a bunch of cool faux finishing in the lobby.

Jon Bryant: Let's yeah, or why you had kids in the first place, right? It was all about all about the networking that could happen.

Jon Bryant: I know, that's what I tell my kids, so just so they know. Yeah, that's it.

Maggie Kuyper: Again, that's just a side effect of how we've poured into the church that they were grateful to be able to hire us. And so those are just little examples of, it's just the power of networking and the power of being true to who you said. Like our core values are huge in our company and they're not just words and people see that. And so when you have us as your painting contractor, whether the job goes flawlessly or there's hiccups, you know at the end of the project that Harpeth Painting was exactly who they said they were going to be. And you knew at the end of the project that Harpeth Painting wanted you on their team as a client, and that our whole goal was to build trust and do things right. And I will lose money on a job before I break that relationship. And so I think you have to release that pride, you have to release that fear of money. And sometimes I'm going to lose money because we're going to do it right and we're going to fix a mistake or maybe there's a miscommunication and there's no one to blame and we just need to, you know, do what's right for the client. And so all these little things have just added up into really big growth. So much. So much paint.

Jon Bryant: I mean...

Jon Bryant: It's a lot, you know, I think it's important to be honest about this and not for people. I mean, a lot of times people think it's glitz and glamour and, you know, growth is great, but it's hard work. And I really resonate with that. And I think it's important also sometimes to sit back and think of the work you have done and that you're never, you know, as entrepreneurs, you're never really happy. And there's always more to do. And that's part of what inspired all of this. Right. And so moments of gratitude and moments of just realization. And sometimes someone else saying like, you actually did pretty good is super helpful. And Maggie, you guys actually did pretty good. So well done. Yeah. Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Yeah.

Maggie Kuyper: Thanks, man. Thanks, man.

Maggie Kuyper: This morning, literally our nanny was sick and I put my children in the car because I promised a designer I would have a drawdown delivered to the job site today.

Jon Bryant: Right.

Maggie Kuyper: And I drove those poor little puggers all the way across town, got them some Chick-fil-A. They sat in the back seat of the car eating their Chick-fil-A while I delivered the drawdown and we came back home just so I could get on this call with Jon Bryant. So like, you know, it's just like, it's not glitz and glamour because I run a large company with a lot of people and that was my day today.

Jon Bryant: Ha ha.

Jon Bryant: Thank you.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, exactly. And it's hard. So, but Maggie, I mean, I thank you for taking the time. I think now's probably a great time to wrap it up. And I think you, you know, your insight into this whole situation with the industry as a whole and professionalization and the importance and impact that women can have in the industry is super valuable. And I hope that if you're listening along, you've got something to take out of this as well. And there's a lot of room for growth in what you're doing. So, Maggie, thank you. Thank you for rushing back, getting that Chick-fil-A and making this a priority. Your time is valuable and I appreciate that.

Maggie Kuyper: Thank you.

Maggie Kuyper: No, I love what you're doing. Keep it up. You have a great business and, you know, I'm a big fan. It would have been really fun if I got on this podcast and just said that I thought women were shit and this should be a male dominated industry. So.

Jon Bryant: Thank you.

Jon Bryant: It would be the most insane podcast probably where we can.

Maggie Kuyper: Maybe you would have gone viral like crazy paint owner bashes women.

Jon Bryant: Yeah, no room for women in this industry. I mean, I'm open to it. I'm open to that discussion. If that's how you truly feel, another episode coming up. Thank you, Maggie. Appreciate your time. Have a wonderful day. See ya.

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